Whatever you do, DO NOT fall to that Jagiellon trap.I do not know what to do with Max yet but I know one thing I am definitely making Max and Philip rivals because I'm just evil
Kingdom-Building: A Valois-Bourgogne TL
- Thread starter Liminia1
- Start date
I'm thinking of a marriage to Saxony just something that has him focused on the empire
I HATE Casimir IV's marriage to Elisabeth of Austria. Elisabeth of Austria marrying Jean de Bourgogne is betterWhy do you despise a marriage between Max and a Jagellion?
Ah, because the dowry wasn't paid. They used her claims to take the thrones of Hungary and Bohemia I see.
Tip: Shoving daughters to marry the HRE is not idealAh, because the dowry wasn't paid. They used her claims to take the thrones of Hungary and Bohemia I see.
Chapter 6.3 The arrival of the Exiled King
"The interesting thing regarding Edward's arrival in Burgundy, was how the ducal house fractured when he arrived. A king who seized the throne brings chaos wherever he goes, I guess fate loves its poetry."
October 7, 1470, Bruges, Flanders,
Edward IV arrived in Flanders, exiled from his kingdom. The trio of Philip, Margaret, and Charles began to negotiate over what to do with the exiled king. They did not come to a consensus as Charles dismissed Philip and Margaret both when he refused to aid his brother in law. Margaret was quite angry over her brother. Henry VI was recoronated as King Henry VI with the help of the traitorous Earl of Warwick. She was now forced to ask both her son and husband to see if they can help her idiotic brother Edward. Charles and Philip were currently in discussion over the news while Isabella was watching over her as she was now pregnant. Margaret prayed both for her new born child and for her brother to be safe.
Edward just arrived at Bruges, the resurgence of Margaret of Anjou and the betrayal of the Earl of Warwick, it was supposed to be expected but he was still the legitimate king, Let us hope my brother in law will support me in this struggle, he thought.
Philip and Charles were in a discussion, "We should support my uncle, father. Not only is our duchy at peace, we also know for a fact that the French are supporting the Lancastrians, after all how else did Margaret get the arms and money needed if she was in France?" Philip argued, "We can not allow a Lancastrian England to take hold." Charles pondered in thought and replied, "You know, Philip this uncle of yours was one who has constantly shifted back and forth between assisting us and assisting the French. He was open to the marriage proposals by Louis your devil-creating godfather!" Charles replied, "How can we confirm that he will assist us in the future as king?" Philip stared into Charles' eyes. "I am engaged to the eldest princess of the King of France, does that mean you do not trust me as your heir?!?" Philip replied in anger. Charles replied, "You have already said, you will never trust or love your wife in terms of governing! How can we trust him, if he openly flirts with French assistance?" Philip sighed and responded, "He has been betrayed by Louis, he comes running to us for help. You were betrayed by Louis with my engagement to Anne, be the proper duke and assist him." Charles sighed, "And what would we gain from supporting this exiled and idiotic king?" Philip thought, "I am very sure we can negotiate a formal alliance and further trade benefits for our duchy, after all we must prepare for this time of peace to end, and a return to war begin." He replied, pleasing his dad. "Very well, we shall see him tonight then."
Philip rushed to his stepmothers' side, as Margaret rubbed her pregnant belly, "Stepmother, Edward is with us now. You'll see him tomorrow though. How is my new baby sibling?" Philip placed his hand on her belly, "They just kicked recently, my child. Tell me, will we help my brother?" Philip smiled, "I guess you can't take the woman out of the duchess but not the duchess out of the woman." He laughed before continuing, "I will support my uncle, but you and I know we need something more for this." Philip replied, Margaret solemnly nodded, "I will convince my brother for further economic benefits for Burgundy then." She replied, as duchess for well over two years and someone who has assumed the duties of administrator knew exactly what she wanted, the removal of the port fees for the Flemish Merchants and more particularly the ones who were under her command.
Edward arrived at the Burgundian court, in all of its glory, he saw Margaret sitting on her throne, heavily pregnant with Charles sitting by her side holding her hand, he smiled, "I greet the duke and Duchess of Burgundy, I congratulate you on your pregnancy dear sister." Margaret and Charles smiled, "Uncle, it is excellent to see you here as well." Philip walked in, paying his respective greetings to both the exiled King and his parents. Philip sat in his chair, sitting to Charles' right. "Do not worry brother, we will restore you as King of England, after all we can not have those bloody Lancastrians on the throne." Margaret announced with a smile. Edward smiled, he knew he could count on his sister, "At a price of course, one that will benefit both of us." Charles continued, "A formal alliance, the money we give to you is a loan, and you have to reduce tariffs/taxes on Flemish goods at Dover." Philip seamlessly finished. Edward was shocked, this was possibly the best deal he could get, no loss of land, a full alliance with Burgundy all for a slight weakening of English merchants. "I, Edward IV of England, agree to the terms." Edward replied. Margaret positively beamed as Edward left as Burgundian courtiers began to take care of the details.
The trio were in a bit of an argument. Philip refused to believe it was this easy to negotiate with Edward, and argued with his stepmother that his uncle could not be trusted to agree to the terms. Charles somewhat supporting his son began to argue that his idiocy will drag Burgundy downwards. Margaret who still believed in Edward began to argue against the two quite passionately, both finally relented and agreed to abide by the terms but added a secret clause that the three agreed, if the Yorkist house loses the crown again they would seize Calais from the English indefinitely as part of the County of Boulogne of which they now own.
Teaser: Philip spoke, "What kind of king would so easily agree to the weakening of his kingdom?" Edward replied, "A king who has been betrayed and lost all. An honest opportunist is better than a deceiving backstabber."
Teaser #2: Anne rode quickly to Burgundy, she had enough of her father, she only hoped her future husband would be kinder to her.
October 7, 1470, Bruges, Flanders,
Edward IV arrived in Flanders, exiled from his kingdom. The trio of Philip, Margaret, and Charles began to negotiate over what to do with the exiled king. They did not come to a consensus as Charles dismissed Philip and Margaret both when he refused to aid his brother in law. Margaret was quite angry over her brother. Henry VI was recoronated as King Henry VI with the help of the traitorous Earl of Warwick. She was now forced to ask both her son and husband to see if they can help her idiotic brother Edward. Charles and Philip were currently in discussion over the news while Isabella was watching over her as she was now pregnant. Margaret prayed both for her new born child and for her brother to be safe.
Edward just arrived at Bruges, the resurgence of Margaret of Anjou and the betrayal of the Earl of Warwick, it was supposed to be expected but he was still the legitimate king, Let us hope my brother in law will support me in this struggle, he thought.
Philip and Charles were in a discussion, "We should support my uncle, father. Not only is our duchy at peace, we also know for a fact that the French are supporting the Lancastrians, after all how else did Margaret get the arms and money needed if she was in France?" Philip argued, "We can not allow a Lancastrian England to take hold." Charles pondered in thought and replied, "You know, Philip this uncle of yours was one who has constantly shifted back and forth between assisting us and assisting the French. He was open to the marriage proposals by Louis your devil-creating godfather!" Charles replied, "How can we confirm that he will assist us in the future as king?" Philip stared into Charles' eyes. "I am engaged to the eldest princess of the King of France, does that mean you do not trust me as your heir?!?" Philip replied in anger. Charles replied, "You have already said, you will never trust or love your wife in terms of governing! How can we trust him, if he openly flirts with French assistance?" Philip sighed and responded, "He has been betrayed by Louis, he comes running to us for help. You were betrayed by Louis with my engagement to Anne, be the proper duke and assist him." Charles sighed, "And what would we gain from supporting this exiled and idiotic king?" Philip thought, "I am very sure we can negotiate a formal alliance and further trade benefits for our duchy, after all we must prepare for this time of peace to end, and a return to war begin." He replied, pleasing his dad. "Very well, we shall see him tonight then."
Philip rushed to his stepmothers' side, as Margaret rubbed her pregnant belly, "Stepmother, Edward is with us now. You'll see him tomorrow though. How is my new baby sibling?" Philip placed his hand on her belly, "They just kicked recently, my child. Tell me, will we help my brother?" Philip smiled, "I guess you can't take the woman out of the duchess but not the duchess out of the woman." He laughed before continuing, "I will support my uncle, but you and I know we need something more for this." Philip replied, Margaret solemnly nodded, "I will convince my brother for further economic benefits for Burgundy then." She replied, as duchess for well over two years and someone who has assumed the duties of administrator knew exactly what she wanted, the removal of the port fees for the Flemish Merchants and more particularly the ones who were under her command.
Edward arrived at the Burgundian court, in all of its glory, he saw Margaret sitting on her throne, heavily pregnant with Charles sitting by her side holding her hand, he smiled, "I greet the duke and Duchess of Burgundy, I congratulate you on your pregnancy dear sister." Margaret and Charles smiled, "Uncle, it is excellent to see you here as well." Philip walked in, paying his respective greetings to both the exiled King and his parents. Philip sat in his chair, sitting to Charles' right. "Do not worry brother, we will restore you as King of England, after all we can not have those bloody Lancastrians on the throne." Margaret announced with a smile. Edward smiled, he knew he could count on his sister, "At a price of course, one that will benefit both of us." Charles continued, "A formal alliance, the money we give to you is a loan, and you have to reduce tariffs/taxes on Flemish goods at Dover." Philip seamlessly finished. Edward was shocked, this was possibly the best deal he could get, no loss of land, a full alliance with Burgundy all for a slight weakening of English merchants. "I, Edward IV of England, agree to the terms." Edward replied. Margaret positively beamed as Edward left as Burgundian courtiers began to take care of the details.
The trio were in a bit of an argument. Philip refused to believe it was this easy to negotiate with Edward, and argued with his stepmother that his uncle could not be trusted to agree to the terms. Charles somewhat supporting his son began to argue that his idiocy will drag Burgundy downwards. Margaret who still believed in Edward began to argue against the two quite passionately, both finally relented and agreed to abide by the terms but added a secret clause that the three agreed, if the Yorkist house loses the crown again they would seize Calais from the English indefinitely as part of the County of Boulogne of which they now own.
Teaser: Philip spoke, "What kind of king would so easily agree to the weakening of his kingdom?" Edward replied, "A king who has been betrayed and lost all. An honest opportunist is better than a deceiving backstabber."
Teaser #2: Anne rode quickly to Burgundy, she had enough of her father, she only hoped her future husband would be kinder to her.
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Character Study #13
Margaret of York: She's slowly realizing her role as a duchess, (again she won't kick ass until later)
Philip, Count of Charolais: I am turning him into a bit of a cynic. I feel like it fits him as someone who is forced to be engaged, seeing his father marry for opportunity only and learning how much of a spider his liege is (Louis XI) Also keeps the whole emo thing I have with him.
Charles the Careful: Charles is actually like pissed, bro literally told Edward ur gonna lose the throne the French are coming for you, and he still loses the throne. I would be pissed too.
Edward IV: I didn't have any ideas on what to do with him, but I am going for an OTL. The guy just got betrayed, he'll take anything he can get.
Philip, Count of Charolais: I am turning him into a bit of a cynic. I feel like it fits him as someone who is forced to be engaged, seeing his father marry for opportunity only and learning how much of a spider his liege is (Louis XI) Also keeps the whole emo thing I have with him.
Charles the Careful: Charles is actually like pissed, bro literally told Edward ur gonna lose the throne the French are coming for you, and he still loses the throne. I would be pissed too.
Edward IV: I didn't have any ideas on what to do with him, but I am going for an OTL. The guy just got betrayed, he'll take anything he can get.
Here are just some ideas I have in mind, Louis is going to go for Burgundy again this time over Anne fleeing France and heading to Burgundy. (This will also hasten Charles telling Edward to leave ASAP)
Isabella of Portugal is going to die, with that so passes her claim to the throne which is going to be interesting.
Philip's baby sibling, I want them to have a firm connection to England, I feel like if I continue down the war of the roses we might get a Burgundian-England Cadet branch that rules England but I feel like that's too OP but who knows. Do I make them male or female? Should I make them minor or major characters?
Isabella of Portugal is going to die, with that so passes her claim to the throne which is going to be interesting.
Philip's baby sibling, I want them to have a firm connection to England, I feel like if I continue down the war of the roses we might get a Burgundian-England Cadet branch that rules England but I feel like that's too OP but who knows. Do I make them male or female? Should I make them minor or major characters?
Chapter 7.1 The Lancastrian greeting
"Margaret of Anjou, was a warrior queen. Someone who Charlotte admired, perhaps this is the reason why Charlotte was so devastated with Margaret's defeat."
August 27, 1470, Amboise, France
Margaret and Anne were playing chess against each other. Charlotte watched with admiration, Margaret was a far better chess player than her. Margaret only recently entered her court of which she was undoubtedly furious over but she still enjoyed the company of Charlotte. "I win, FINALLY!" Anne exclaimed, as Charlotte carrying Joan. Margaret smiled as she watched Charlotte enter beckoning her to sit beside her. "Charlotte, please join us." Charlotte sat down as Anne rushed her to give her and Joan a hug. Edward of Westminster, who just arrived from his hunting. Called for his mother, "Margaret, I have returned." Margaret smiled and hugged her son.
Margaret and Charlotte continued their discussion over French and English Politics, the recent betrayal of the earl of Warwick has excited Margaret and her son Edward, hoping to return to England to reclaim their throne. Anne who has grown quite a bit, joined Edward into his hunting trips. Charlotte disproved of Edward and his friendship or sibling bond with Anne, when she greeted the Milanese Ambassador two years ago, the arrogance and pure violence he told of her made her wary of him. Charlotte was however quite pleased with the habits of Anne as she has been taught sword-fighting by Edward, learned hunting, archery and statesmanship by Charlotte and her tutors. Charlotte continued to rock Joan to sleep while Anne began to beg her mother to let her join Edward in a spar. Charlotte sighed and allowed it.
Anne drew her wooden sword, and circled Edward. "Your stance is better." Edward replied with a cruel smile. Edward swung his sword forward aiming for her face. Anne sidestepped swiped her sword downward to deflect. Edward immediately followed with a kick to her stomach sending her rolling, she immediately got up and with the adrenaline running through began her sword combination tactic against Edward, as Edward who trained her immediately countered perfectly until Anne saw an opening and punched Edward in the jaw, flipped his sword off and kicked him onto the ground with the wooden sword onto his neck.
Edward filled with anger and hate only smiled, "You have improved." Anne took Edward's hand getting up with her help. He patted her head, "You did amazing my little warrior." Edward praised, as Charlotte looked at the two. She was a bit concerned, she saw Edward's anger, Anne noticed too but thought it was jealousy. "Edward, your mother is calling for you." Edward nodded, dropping his sword and immediately moved to the castle. Charlotte was now completely suspicious of Edward, she thought it would have been better if he took his time.
Richard Neville, and Clarence arrived kneeling in front of Margaret and Edward, as Charlotte and Anne returned. "We solemnly ask for your forgiveness and ask you to return to England to reclaim your right place as Queen of England. Margaret positively beamed while Edward announced, "Swear your loyalty to the Lancastrian Cause, swear your loyalty and proclaim myself as Prince of Wales." Both Richard and Clarence agreed, swearing their loyalty to Edward. Anne looking at Charlotte in a mixture of confusion and pride, while Charlotte looked in disgust. They already sweared their loyalty to Margaret, do they have to swear it to Edward too? She ordered all four of them to leave and told Margaret, "My husband Louis, will assist you in this cause please his servants are waiting for your arrival." All four of them rushed out while Charlotte sighed.
Teaser: Charlotte waved Margaret goodbye, she wouldn't know that she would return to her in rags and in chains.
August 27, 1470, Amboise, France
Margaret and Anne were playing chess against each other. Charlotte watched with admiration, Margaret was a far better chess player than her. Margaret only recently entered her court of which she was undoubtedly furious over but she still enjoyed the company of Charlotte. "I win, FINALLY!" Anne exclaimed, as Charlotte carrying Joan. Margaret smiled as she watched Charlotte enter beckoning her to sit beside her. "Charlotte, please join us." Charlotte sat down as Anne rushed her to give her and Joan a hug. Edward of Westminster, who just arrived from his hunting. Called for his mother, "Margaret, I have returned." Margaret smiled and hugged her son.
Margaret and Charlotte continued their discussion over French and English Politics, the recent betrayal of the earl of Warwick has excited Margaret and her son Edward, hoping to return to England to reclaim their throne. Anne who has grown quite a bit, joined Edward into his hunting trips. Charlotte disproved of Edward and his friendship or sibling bond with Anne, when she greeted the Milanese Ambassador two years ago, the arrogance and pure violence he told of her made her wary of him. Charlotte was however quite pleased with the habits of Anne as she has been taught sword-fighting by Edward, learned hunting, archery and statesmanship by Charlotte and her tutors. Charlotte continued to rock Joan to sleep while Anne began to beg her mother to let her join Edward in a spar. Charlotte sighed and allowed it.
Anne drew her wooden sword, and circled Edward. "Your stance is better." Edward replied with a cruel smile. Edward swung his sword forward aiming for her face. Anne sidestepped swiped her sword downward to deflect. Edward immediately followed with a kick to her stomach sending her rolling, she immediately got up and with the adrenaline running through began her sword combination tactic against Edward, as Edward who trained her immediately countered perfectly until Anne saw an opening and punched Edward in the jaw, flipped his sword off and kicked him onto the ground with the wooden sword onto his neck.
Edward filled with anger and hate only smiled, "You have improved." Anne took Edward's hand getting up with her help. He patted her head, "You did amazing my little warrior." Edward praised, as Charlotte looked at the two. She was a bit concerned, she saw Edward's anger, Anne noticed too but thought it was jealousy. "Edward, your mother is calling for you." Edward nodded, dropping his sword and immediately moved to the castle. Charlotte was now completely suspicious of Edward, she thought it would have been better if he took his time.
Richard Neville, and Clarence arrived kneeling in front of Margaret and Edward, as Charlotte and Anne returned. "We solemnly ask for your forgiveness and ask you to return to England to reclaim your right place as Queen of England. Margaret positively beamed while Edward announced, "Swear your loyalty to the Lancastrian Cause, swear your loyalty and proclaim myself as Prince of Wales." Both Richard and Clarence agreed, swearing their loyalty to Edward. Anne looking at Charlotte in a mixture of confusion and pride, while Charlotte looked in disgust. They already sweared their loyalty to Margaret, do they have to swear it to Edward too? She ordered all four of them to leave and told Margaret, "My husband Louis, will assist you in this cause please his servants are waiting for your arrival." All four of them rushed out while Charlotte sighed.
Teaser: Charlotte waved Margaret goodbye, she wouldn't know that she would return to her in rags and in chains.
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Character Study #14
Margaret of Anjou: Another roll model of a warrior queen. Who will fall in front of Charlotte and Anne's eyes LOL. Her story while short will be tragic.
Edward of Westminster: I despise him, he is a brute, arrogant and violent. He'll get what he deserves in the England chapter.
Anne of Beaujeu: She's beginning her journey of a warrior but the shine and brilliance in her eyes will die when Charlotte will have her tragic fall.
Charlotte of Savoy: She's enjoying her life so far but when Charles is born. She will fall harshly and the one who witnesses it clearly will be Anne, her eldest daughter.
Edward of Westminster: I despise him, he is a brute, arrogant and violent. He'll get what he deserves in the England chapter.
Anne of Beaujeu: She's beginning her journey of a warrior but the shine and brilliance in her eyes will die when Charlotte will have her tragic fall.
Charlotte of Savoy: She's enjoying her life so far but when Charles is born. She will fall harshly and the one who witnesses it clearly will be Anne, her eldest daughter.
I still don't have an idea with Philip's sibling, I haven't even figured if I want them male or female
Maybe an Alt Marie?
If I make the sibling male, I can establish a Burgundy-York cadet branch, maybe Elizabeth in this TL gets the Duchy of York or Calais. If I make the sibling female we will have a Burgundian Queen of England which is equally awesome. I want the sibling to get a reward for healing Philip yk.
Burgundian Queen Consort of England after Hal VII wins sounds awesome!
a Burgundian york cadet branch sounds very cool indeed. Or we get a personal union instead if the main branch dies?