Kingdom-Building: A Valois-Bourgogne TL

[Liminia1]

Here's something I'll just leave from my rough edit because I found it funny:
Charlotte continued playing chess against her eldest Anne, her while Joan her youngest daughter was still sleeping in the fridge. Yes I will post Chapter 5 shortly but I accidentally invented Fridge technology for this story and put Joan inside a fridge sorry ;-;

 

[Liminia1]

"Queen Charlotte of Savoy, is notable for two things her imprisonment and subsequent creation of a court in Amboise." -Anonymous Historian (Running out of historians to leech off of)

March 22, 1466, Amboise, France
Charlotte was devastated when she returned to this castle, Louis banished her from Paris and forced her to return to Amboise. She wept over this humiliation while Anne who was four tried her best to cheer her up which it no doubt did, but then she heard the news, Isabella of Bourbon has passed away in Burgundy. She couldn't attend the funeral as Louis forbid her from attending. She cried even harder with her loss of her friend. She prayed for Charles and Philip to recover and move on from her death. Charlotte was completely shaken by her friend's death, yes she died happy and with a loving husband and son but what about she? Anne, bless her soul was already quite concerned for her as she started to cry to when she did. It was only four years ago that she nearly died due to a fever. She knew she had to fulfill her dreams and destiny. She would follow what Charles' advice and create her own court, right here in Amboise.

Charlotte continued playing chess against her eldest Anne, her while Joan her youngest daughter was still sleeping in the crib. Anne moved her queen and placing it on g8 checkmating Charlotte much to her shock and pride. She lifted her daughter up in her arms and exclaimed, "You won!!!!" Spinning her around in the air much to Anne's joy. She then gently let her daughter down the door as she then asked her daughter if she wished to see her new works for her court. Anne always curious and eager agreed, as Charlotte and Anne explored the new expansions to her library and her ever expanding art collection. It was a lonely court but one that steadily growing in popularity as King Louis seeing it as not only a way to appease his wife but also help increase his prestige ever since the war of the Public Weal, he would continue to fund this steadily growing court while he stayed in Paris scheming for greater glory.

Charlotte relished in this newfound enjoyment and excitement in her life, her new flourishing court was now something she was proud of. Nowhere near the absolute glory that was the Burgundian court but it was something to be talked about in France. Even her cold-blooded husband visited her a couple of times remarking how amazed he was at this court and now he was returning once again. Louis XI arrived at the court and growing ever in admiration and jealousy of his wife, Queen Charlotte of France and how she managed this court. Wife and husband greeted each other with only a hint of fondness as Charlotte showed off the new additions she made in the court while Louis continued to interact with various nobles trying to appease them and regain their approval. Anne on the other hand was becoming quite the little genius, already her fascination with manuscripts and chess has caught the eye of Charlotte as she was now her pride and joy, teaching her everything she would know and promoting an aggressive streak within her.

Teaser: "HE IS NOTHING BUT A POWERHUNGRY TYRANT MY FATHER RECOGNIZED THAT AND THAT IS WHY HE NAMED ME KING, CHARLOTTE YOU KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE." Charlotte walked away.

 

[Liminia1]

Charlotte of Savoy: I wanted to give her a positive note for the time being. Do not worry her story still continues.
Anne of Beaujeu: Our first child scene with her, she's already proving herself as a fierce and cunning warrior heh.
Louis XI of France: I think I humanized him somewhat? Hopefully I did, still trying to go for the toxic love angle not sure if I captured it yet.

 

[Dragonboy]

Great stuff

 

[Liminia1]

Also just in case, y'all are confused on how Anne can play chess. Lifespan back in the 15th century was shorter and so growing up was a lot faster so I can definitely see someone as smart like Anne learn chess at the age of 5.

 

[Liminia1]

I feel like y'all deserve some reasoning behind the changes I made cause a lot of POD's do exist in order to better fit the narrative.
The relationship between Charles and Isabella: I definitely made a lot of changes in terms of their personality and relationship. I wanted Charles to be more relatable, and personable and that just meant making their relationship a lot warmer and closer especially since the first thing I did was make Charles present at Philip's birth.
The friendship between France and Burgundy: I really wanted to keep their friendship a bit longer to get that Anne and Philip couple. (Honestly, maybe I should have paired Anne of Savoy with Philip instead of Anne of Beaujeu but then again, I feel like especially Burgundian TLs Anne gets overshadowed or just bashed) So I had to remove the first thing that made Charles hate Louis, the purchase of the Somme Towns as Philip wanted to crusade. How does one fix that? Use a 5 year old (honestly if I rewrote that chapter I would research that era a bit more to get an better reason) I still wanted the Franco-Burgundian Rivalry tho to serve the story well, now how do we do that while fulfilling the spider king's wish to being a spider? Betray Charles
Charlotte of Savoy: She's a blank slate tbh. I could write her as I see fit and as long as I hit some broad strokes I would be still somewhat accurate. The story I have to tell with her will pay off (Trust me and my copium writing) but making those changes such as her friendship with Charles and Isabella, her admiration for the Burgundian court and various other minor things to change her personality is what I had to do to fit the story and the nice thing is, it could be accurate

A time jump once again may be used in order to continue the story and yes, Charlotte of Savoy will be front and centre to this.

 

[Nova_Philomena]

I feel like y'all deserve some reasoning behind the changes I made cause a lot of POD's do exist in order to better fit the narrative.
The relationship between Charles and Isabella: I definitely made a lot of changes in terms of their personality and relationship. I wanted Charles to be more relatable, and personable and that just meant making their relationship a lot warmer and closer especially since the first thing I did was make Charles present at Philip's birth.
The friendship between France and Burgundy: I really wanted to keep their friendship a bit longer to get that Anne and Philip couple. (Honestly, maybe I should have paired Anne of Savoy with Philip instead of Anne of Beaujeu but then again, I feel like especially Burgundian TLs Anne gets overshadowed or just bashed) So I had to remove the first thing that made Charles hate Louis, the purchase of the Somme Towns as Philip wanted to crusade. How does one fix that? Use a 5 year old (honestly if I rewrote that chapter I would research that era a bit more to get an better reason) I still wanted the Franco-Burgundian Rivalry tho to serve the story well, now how do we do that while fulfilling the spider king's wish to being a spider? Betray Charles
Charlotte of Savoy: She's a blank slate tbh. I could write her as I see fit and as long as I hit some broad strokes I would be still somewhat accurate. The story I have to tell with her will pay off (Trust me and my copium writing) but making those changes such as her friendship with Charles and Isabella, her admiration for the Burgundian court and various other minor things to change her personality is what I had to do to fit the story and the nice thing is, it could be accurate

A time jump once again may be used in order to continue the story and yes, Charlotte of Savoy will be front and centre to this.

I don't mind most of the changes. And I'm looking forward to exploring Anne of France's character more.

 

[Liminia1]

"Louis' spidery antics were on full display during and after the war of the Public Weal, and it was completely to his credit after all, imprisoning and stripping his brother of Normandy, Anjou, and Brittany from him is only something Louis could ever do." -Historian

August 21, 1467, Paris, France.

Louis smiled in satisfaction, a border dispute occurred between Rene, Duke of Anjou, Charles Duke of Normandy and Francis II, Duke of Brittany soon he will bring his royal army into those lands and settle their disputes and seize all of it for himself. The northwest lands and Burgundy were the only lands that were not almost under his complete authority. He had gained so much in his 6 years as king. He did not have an heir yet but he was sure to have one soon with his wife Charlotte. He had completely dismantled his enemies in the south leaving only the count of Albret with only a whiff of power in those lands. Now with this golden opportunity, he could seize the northwest and then focus on Burgundy once and for all.

Charles at the head of his Norman army marched against his former ally, Francis. With encouragement and support from both Burgundy and England he decided it would be better to bring both Brittany and Anjou under his belt rather than leave it to his allies. Rene and Francis met them in battle. He remembered this situation quite well back in Chatres when he was on the opposite side and he defeated Charles. He could not worry too much about it now. He would fight and defeat both of these fools. He was in the same position like the Burgundians but unlike him he would not fail. He ordered a charge, "Let us achieve eternal glory men CHARGE!" Charles led his armies against Francis and routed them sending the Breton duke in flight while the Angevins just arriving seeing the slaughter about to die down decided to join in and Charles ever the warrior rallied his men against the Angevins defeating them too in quick succession.

Louis sat on his guest throne in Amboise, he was very intrigued with the developments happening to his north. Charlotte was busy with Anne and Joan which he was confused in why but Francis and Rene were kneeling in front of him currently. "Rise my subjects, I will deal with my overzealous and rebellious vassal." Louis commanded as his smile grew. Now he would completely defeat his brother and seize all of the Northwest. Charles was soon captured in battle in massacre near Angers. Louis immediately forced a new peace at Caen with Rene and Francis. Louis gained back his territories in Brittany and Touraine. He stripped Normandy and Alencon from Charles and had him imprisoned in Paris.
Charlotte of Savoy walked through the remote castle, as Charles sat in a chair eating what can only be described as meagre meal. Charles beckoned Charlotte to have a seat, "Must your husband humiliate me even more? Now he brings his wife whom he neglects to host me." Charles stated in anger. "Not that I am against having you here, my Queen." Charlotte stared at him blankly, "I came here of my own accord, Charles." she stated with conviction. "And do tell, what can a queen of France have to do with little old me?" Charles asked in curiosity. "I have shown Louis that I am not someone new and inexperienced in court, why will he not have me return to Paris?" Charlotte asked, "My brother is known as the universal spider, it is only fair that he would seclude you, to him you are just but a tool used only for his heirs and alliance with Savoy. Why do you think he had me imprisoned even though I gave him the Northwest for free?" Charles exclaimed in anger. "HE IS NOTHING BUT A POWERHUNGRY TYRANT MY FATHER RECOGNIZED THAT AND THAT IS WHY HE NAMED ME KING, CHARLOTTE YOU KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE." Charlotte walked away, Charles clearly was going mad, and she placed those words in the back of her mind. She wished to be in Burgundy again, with Isabella, Charles and when Louis was more present in her life. She returned to see Anne reading a book on military strategy. "Mom!" She exclaimed, placing the book down and hugging her mother. She smiled, she knew her eldest would make her proud.

Teaser 1: She returned to Paris in with gleeful joy, only to realize even though she was at the centre of things, the spotlight would be on Louis and Louis only.

 

[Dragonboy]

You're doing a great job. I always wanted for someone to stomp the spider, and you're doing a mighty at writing him.

 

[Liminia1]

Charles, Duke of Normandy: He's slowly growing in anger, he was at the height of his power as Duke of Normandy, Anjou and Brittany, however, an overpowered vassal would not be allowed in front of the Spider King so he is now imprisoned and kept under Louis' strict watch.
Louis XI of France: I think I am really getting into the whole Louis the Spider persona. I told you his rise would not stop just because of a measly truce in Conflans. The seizure of the northwest would prove to be incredibly fruitful for his centralized kingdom.
Charlotte of Savoy: I'm still planting seeds in her, Charles' rant will have an effect on her much later. It seems anyone named Charles would always influence her.
Anne of Beaujeu: She's slowly developing her warrior and cunning persona. She's already reading military strategy.

 

[Dragonboy]

Charles, Duke of Normandy: He's slowly growing in anger, he was at the height of his power as Duke of Normandy, Anjou and Brittany, however, an overpowered vassal would not be allowed in front of the Spider King so he is now imprisoned and kept under Louis' strict watch.
Louis XI of France: I think I am really getting into the whole Louis the Spider persona. I told you his rise would not stop just because of a measly truce in Conflans. The seizure of the northwest would prove to be incredibly fruitful for his centralized kingdom.
Charlotte of Savoy: I'm still planting seeds in her, Charles' rant will have an effect on her much later. It seems anyone named Charles would always influence her.

Very good job

 

[Liminia1]

"Margaret of York, was many things, a talented administrator, a brilliant diplomat, but most importantly an excellent teacher for young Philip. It was funny how the first thing she wanted was to be have a fruitful relationship with her stepson instead she would accomplish everything she wanted and would get that relationship last."
June 23 1468, Sluys, Flanders,

Charles looked across the channel as his future bride was to arrive. The times after Isabella's death were not easy. The misfortune that was continuous ever since his defeat at Chatres has not done his mental state any favours. In 1467, his father Philip the Good passed away, while they were not on the best of terms he still respected him as the statesman as he was. Charles Duke of Normandy was now imprisoned by Louis XI of France. He smiled, at least his defeat at Chatres wasn't as humiliating. Isabella and Philip were pressuring him to remarry for the sake of the nation as Philip was quite scared his grandson would die young and without any heirs which would ruin their goals for a Burgundian Kingdom. The only reason right now, he was here to remarry was that he found a letter from his late wife, Isabella. She encouraged him to move on and to find someone after her death, as she put it, "My love, you were always meant to rise above, it was my greed for your love and affection that kept you down. Find someone who will fly to the highest of heavens with you. Do not let my death discourage you anymore." He let another tear roll by as he watched across the channel waiting for the ship to arrive.

Isabella of Portugal was quite proud of what she has accomplished, two years before she finally got her husband to agree that an alliance with the French was suicide ever since the betrayal at Paris and that an alliance with the English was now very much needed. The negotiations for Margaret of York's hand was quite troublesome. Louis XI tried his best to ruin the marriages by proposing different marriages for Charles and Margaret. One was for the hand of Anne of Savoy to Charles. The other Philip of Bresse, to Margaret with huge dowries and cash respectively. Charles however was disgusted at this move from Louis and convinced Edward that these offers could not be trusted. The marriage between Margaret and Charles were finalized with the dowry and payments being made. Charles would gain some small personal estates in England as the dowry while Margaret was given a couple of cities in Flanders from Charles as part of her dowry. Isabella smiled as she stood beside young Philip, what was most important to her was that Margaret still had her rights as an English Princess and her claims to the English throne.

Philip of Charolais was quite pissed at his dad it had not only been two years and he was now getting remarried to an English Princess. When Charles announced it to him, Philip responded by yelling in anger, "You promised that you would not put your ambition ahead of me!" Charles explained that this was the best for the two of them as he needed a mother and both Isabel and his grandparents agreed it was necessary. Philip screamed in tears as he read the letter Charles showed to him. Charles tried to hug him but Philip refused walking away in anger. He cried all alone that day. Now he was here in Sluys waiting for his stepmother, he did not like it but as his father taught him a prince must be present in times like this.

Margaret of York was watching the waves rise up and down as her ship sailed almost arriving at Sluys. She has heard rumours, about Charles I of Burgundy and his personality. She wished she was in Burgundy earlier as she was supposed to marry Charles instead of Isabella but it did not matter now she was to arrive to Burgundy and marry Charles. She knows Charles has a son, but she hoped to have children of her own as well, if not to raise Philip like her own. She wanted to be a duchess that Burgundy would be proud of. "I promise in front of the lord, I will become duchess tomorrow and I will make my mark not as Margaret of York, but Margaret, Duchess of Burgundy." She proclaimed in front of the waves. She returned to the cabin and awaited for her ship to arrive to Sluys.

Teaser: Philip frowned against Margaret. Margaret knew she had her work cut out for her.

 

[Liminia1]

Isabella of Portugal: Isabella's role will grow ever so slightly. (I have neglected her I'm sorry) She will prove to be the mediator between Margaret and Philip.
Margaret of York: Her journey will not be easy like IOTL. I couldn't make everything sunshine and rainbows like OTL when Mary and Margaret got along quite closely.
Philip of Charolais: He's still grieving over his loss but Margaret will fill in that hole as a mother somewhat. (We lost the golden boy sorry)

 

[Dragonboy]

Great work! Can't wait to see the relationship between Margaret and Philip develop!

 

[Liminia1]

Philip the Good:
Ah yes, the killing of Philip the Good. I despise Philip the Good for all the expansion and patronage he did in his life, I can not forgive him for his belief in a French-Burgundian Alliance securing his realm. Especially under Louis the Spider. Obviously I have changed his personality somewhat and given him a slight arc in which he realizes his mistakes in believing in France.

Philip the Good was just an incredibly lucky and decisive man. Every small opportunity he would seize to expand his realm. The death of the counts of Holland, Zeeland and Hainaut boosted him quite significantly. The sale of Namur and Luxembourg continued to improve his fortunes but he never did anything else. All he did was expand through soft power leaving Charles practically broke and starved of allies. Charles imo was a better duke than Philip, and he will be in this TL as he takes his time to properly expand and gain allies in the Empire and France.

Philip the Good was one of my neglected characters. (I'm sorry I have sinned against y'all) I thought since he was pretty old at this point I would give him a small arc and have him fade into the sunset. I think I made his ending too quick and easy but I thought the retirement of him was enough of an ending and the death of Isabella was enough grief for poor ol Charles.

 

[Dragonboy]

Philip the Good:
Ah yes, the killing of Philip the Good. I despise Philip the Good for all the expansion and patronage he did in his life, I can not forgive him for his belief in a French-Burgundian Alliance securing his realm. Especially under Louis the Spider. Obviously I have changed his personality somewhat and given him a slight arc in which he realizes his mistakes in believing in France.

Philip the Good was just an incredibly lucky and decisive man. Every small opportunity he would seize to expand his realm. The death of the counts of Holland, Zeeland and Hainaut boosted him quite significantly. The sale of Namur and Luxembourg continued to improve his fortunes but he never did anything else. All he did was expand through soft power leaving Charles practically broke and starved of allies. Charles imo was a better duke than Philip, and he will be in this TL as he takes his time to properly expand and gain allies in the Empire and France.

Philip the Good was one of my neglected characters. (I'm sorry I have sinned against y'all) I thought since he was pretty old at this point I would give him a small arc and have him fade into the sunset. I think I made his ending too quick and easy but I thought the retirement of him was enough of an ending and the death of Isabella was enough grief for poor ol Charles.

Great work with him.

 

[Liminia1]

Some plot threads I have attached that I do not know if I will use in the future.
The dowry: The rights to the English Throne, I really do not want a Burgundian-England union TL. The reason I placed it there was historical accuracy but if I see a good idea (Let's say for a Burgundian cadet branch) I will use it but don't expect anything from that.
The small estates in England: I have a really rough idea on how to use this in the future (It has something to do with Calais ) but right now, I'm leaving it open, if I come back and find a new idea with them I will use it.
For both of these you may suggest plot ideas revolving these two. Alright see ya in Chapter 6.2

 

[BoleynBuff]

The rights to the English Throne

Margaret's rights? She's far, far away from the throne. As in, behind her brothers and their children, and all her sisters and their children. The chances of her inheriting are practically non-existent.

 

[Liminia1]

Yes I know but it a plot thread, I have no idea if I want to use it in this story or if I even can use it in this story

 

[Zestinobambino]

Yes I know but it a plot thread, I have no idea if I want to use it in this story or if I even can use it in this story

As interesting as seeing Charles make a claim for England jure uxoris would be, I desperately, desperately hope you avoid such a situation. Since Charles and Margaret are married now, then I hope to see my man Edward IV getting along reasonably well with Charles (reasonably well at the very least!)
For Charles/Margaret to have a reasonable claim you'd have to create a situation where Edward IV and his brothers George and Richard all die early, which - while not impossible - is unlikely. If you don't want this to be the case, have Edward IV live to a reasonable age, then just have one of Charles's kids marry one of Edward's kids to cement any alliance between Burgundy and England that you might be planning.