As I'm doing research into the Sino-Vietnamese War, I found that it was highly related to the Khmer Rogue, that horrid regime that started all of that mess (well indirectly to be fair, as they were overthrown by the time the war happened). So I figured there must be a way to prevent the rise of the Khmer Rogue, perhaps with a POD no sooner than 1970; so I ask what POD is necessary to prevent the Khmer Rogue from gaining power in Cambodia and messing it up?
Prevent the rise of the Khmer Rogue regime
- Thread starter KuboCaskett
- Start date
I wrote a tl about it called 12 Minutes to Midnight, however the POD is in 1963. Otherwise post 1970 pod is very hard to achieve, and imo requires a completely different personality for Norodom Sihanouk.
marathag
Banned
Easy way for that is a Khmer Guerrilla or Right-winger permanently adjust his attitude with a bullet sometime between 1960-1965
While the group was, indeed, a rogue régime, it was also communist, hence 'red'
Khmer Rouge.
Khmer Rouge.
The only way this is possible is if Sihanouk does not get sick (and thereby avoids his trip to France, which allowed the 1970 coup to occur), he purges the military (and nips the coup at the bud), overtly makes overtures to the US and aggressively assists in fighting North Vietnam (averting the 1970 coup), or as a wildcard he declares war on the US and openly seeks North Vietnamese support.
While avoiding sickness, if possible, is an arbitrary but possible POD, purging the military and overtly making overtures to the US probably won't work (unless he goes ahead and seeks medical help in the US, while concurrently doing a state-side publicity tour. The US might decide not to off him.) I think the best chance to avoid the Khmer Rouge is to have Sihanouk seek North Vietnamese support. He in OTL worked well with the Khmer Rouge. If he gets support from the North Vietnamese, this avoids Pol Pot becoming the defacto head of state, and rather Pol Pot becomes a puppet useful in keeping his military in line. After the US loses Vietnam, Pol Pot (who hated Vietnamese and Chinese for racial reasons) will make his play for power, but the Cambodian military with Vietnamese support is more than enough to keep the Khmer Rouge at bay.
Essentially, the above makes Cambodia a Vietnamese satellite sooner. Such a POD is sufficient to prevent the Khmer Rouge, and it can occur in 1970.
Another possible POD is simply to butterfly Watergate. The US, for all intents and purposes, "won" Vietnam in 1973. If Nixon serves his second term in its entirety, there's no chance the North Vietnamese restart the war. In fact, the next President (perhaps another Republican as Nixon was very popular) will not be a pushover like Carter and the North Vietnamese will stay put. The specter of the US pressing its rights in South Vietnam would likely keep the North from attacking again. All of this means that the power-vacuum in South East Asia post watergate doesn't allow the Khmer Rouge to rise from the ashes.
While avoiding sickness, if possible, is an arbitrary but possible POD, purging the military and overtly making overtures to the US probably won't work (unless he goes ahead and seeks medical help in the US, while concurrently doing a state-side publicity tour. The US might decide not to off him.) I think the best chance to avoid the Khmer Rouge is to have Sihanouk seek North Vietnamese support. He in OTL worked well with the Khmer Rouge. If he gets support from the North Vietnamese, this avoids Pol Pot becoming the defacto head of state, and rather Pol Pot becomes a puppet useful in keeping his military in line. After the US loses Vietnam, Pol Pot (who hated Vietnamese and Chinese for racial reasons) will make his play for power, but the Cambodian military with Vietnamese support is more than enough to keep the Khmer Rouge at bay.
Essentially, the above makes Cambodia a Vietnamese satellite sooner. Such a POD is sufficient to prevent the Khmer Rouge, and it can occur in 1970.
Another possible POD is simply to butterfly Watergate. The US, for all intents and purposes, "won" Vietnam in 1973. If Nixon serves his second term in its entirety, there's no chance the North Vietnamese restart the war. In fact, the next President (perhaps another Republican as Nixon was very popular) will not be a pushover like Carter and the North Vietnamese will stay put. The specter of the US pressing its rights in South Vietnam would likely keep the North from attacking again. All of this means that the power-vacuum in South East Asia post watergate doesn't allow the Khmer Rouge to rise from the ashes.
I quite like this idea, since it might butterfly away the Sino-Vietnamese War of 1979 but I don't think it would butterfly away the tensions between Vietnam and China nor would it butterfly away the US withdrawal from the Vietnam War.
marathag
Banned
without US support, Lon Nol never takes over, but Cambodia goes down the tubes slower, and then Pol Pot has even more people to kill, a few years later.
If Sihanouk is not around, as long as North Vietnam wins who is to stop the Khmer Rouge from taking power unless there is a strong domestic presence that is friendly with Vietnam? Without Sihanouk, you have no hope of having a pro-Vietnam government. Sihanouk was a sell out, but not a puppet. A sihanoukless government is a US puppet, and if so, will inevitably allow the Khmer Rouge to take power as North Vietnam will win eventually.
I've read your TL, and it's a good one; hell, I'd gladly read any Cambodia TL with no Khmer Rouge, but this one would certainly be one of the best!
Problem is that Sihanouk, for better or worse, initially was seen like a Khmer George Washington.
Now that's interesting, TBH; I honestly didn't know that. Any further info you can link me to in this regard?
Can't remember where I got it, but initially his Sangkum enjoyed broad support, everyone fron Lon Nol, to Khieu Samphan was included.
Okay. I'll admit, my knowledge of Cambodia is rather limited outside of maybe the Khmer Rouge tragedies, and the current era, and even in both of these regards, not all that much beyond the basic facts.
A fairly accurate perception of Sihanouk, combined with the veneration towards the royal family and you have a pretty heady mix.