Your Personal Pop Culture Utopia timeline

[Twiggierjet]

So in this situation, would you revamp Princess Peach to be more tomboyish. Make her someone who not only hates her prim and proper existence, but is tough enough to lay the smackdown on Bowser?

I like the idea of a tomboyish Daisy, but in the end, making her a tough girl who "get's things done" isn't inherently good writing: making her into a nuanced character who has to learn lessons and make sacrifices is.

I think it's important to remember we are talking about a Mario game character, and as such some epic personal journey is probably not really necessary. The extent of making her a tomboy on Nintendo's part would probably just be giving her some hard-hitting moves and an athletic outfit in the next game she shows up in.

Honestly, I'm more inclined towards girly girls.

I'm a bit confused myself by what prompted this response out of nowhere.

 

[Tsar Nicholas The Cringe]

I think it's important to remember we are talking about a Mario game character, and as such some epic personal journey is probably not really necessary. The extent of making her a tomboy on Nintendo's part would probably just be giving her some hard-hitting moves and an athletic outfit in the next game she shows up in.

So you don't think people would care if Nintendo tried to flesh her character out more?

By contrast, would people be more interested in a series about Bowsette?

 

[Gavinski]

Probably not. I could go over some more minor/nitpicky stuff, but as far as bigger changes go, I don't have much to say.

I may split my Mega Man section off into its own post, but I don't have much experience with Battle Network and Star Force; advice from anyone on what can be added to either series would be appreciated.

idk I still think "nitpicky" stuff is interesting to see. like, what games are removed or never exist?
idk Super Circuit for the GBA is just meh to me
oh yeah. Mario kart has a SERIOUS roster problem, so you could do a exclusion/inclusion system like you did with Smash Bros

 

[Twiggierjet]

So you don't think people would care if Nintendo tried to flesh her character out more?

It would be cool if she got as much attention as Peach, but you were talking about stuff like Nuance and Character Arcs which even Mario doesn't get in 90% of the games. Which is fine, Nintendo's games are a different niche.

 

[Tsar Nicholas The Cringe]

It would be cool if she got as much attention as Peach, but you were talking about stuff like Nuance and Character Arcs which even Mario doesn't get in 90% of the games. Which is fine, Nintendo's games are a different niche.

So are Nintendo games full of stories with a Black and White morality?

 

[ThatOneGuyWithSunglasses]

idk I still think "nitpicky" stuff is interesting to see. like, what games are removed or never exist?
idk Super Circuit for the GBA is just meh to me
oh yeah. Mario kart has a SERIOUS roster problem, so you could do a exclusion/inclusion system like you did with Smash Bros

I could change my mind and come back to it at some point, I suppose. That said, I'd give the axe (or more dev time) to later spinoffs like Ultra Smash.

As for the Mario Kart rosters:

• Super: DK Jr Donkey Kong
• 64: DK and Kamek are both in the final release
• Super Circuit is the exact same
• Double Dash: Paratroopa Goomba
• DS: Shy Guy Kamek
• Wii: Baby Peach, Baby Daisy Prof E. Gadd, Toadsworth
• 7: Metal Mario, Honey Queen, Lakitu, Wiggler Waluigi, Midbus, Lubba, Captain Syrup

I'll cover 8 later on.

 

[Nivek]

It would be cool if she got as much attention as Peach, but you were talking about stuff like Nuance and Character Arcs which even Mario doesn't get in 90% of the games. Which is fine, Nintendo's games are a different niche.

So are Nintendo games full of stories with a Black and White morality?

With Mario Miyamoto pulls the Carmack rule: the plot is there but is not that important(seems he care more in those for zelda). Mario is like a puppet/MARIOnette, versatile so you could told anything with him, but the history itself is just an accessory for the gameplay(see 3D World, with the pixies you got playable peach). Is just depends what the development team wants

The second Tsar..depends the writer studio...and the franchise too

 

[Twiggierjet]

So are Nintendo games full of stories with a Black and White morality?

The Mario games don't really have much morality beyond 80s arcade level "rescue the princess" stuff. Have you ever played any?

 

[Tsar Nicholas The Cringe]

With Mario Miyamoto pulls the Carmack rule: the plot is there but is not that important(seems he care more in those for zelda). Mario is like a puppet/MARIOnette, versatile so you could told anything with him, but the history itself is just an accessory for the gameplay(see 3D World, with the pixies you got playable peach). Is just depends what the development team wants

The second Tsar..depends the writer studio...and the franchise too

Yeah, I remember watching a documentary where Miyamoto whole's

MO is designing games that allow a person to do exploration.

The Mario games don't really have much morality beyond 80s arcade level "rescue the princess" stuff. Have you ever played any?

I know that part. But my question is can you take the Mario franchise and create more multi-facted and nuanced stories of it?

 

[Twiggierjet]

I know that part. But my question is can you take the Mario franchise and create more multi-facted and nuanced stories of it?

I guess you could try but I'm not sure what the point of that would be.

 

[ThatOneGuyWithSunglasses]

Personally, if I had to give the series more story (outside of RPG games), I would probably go in a similar direction to the 1992 comics, though that might be better suited for a TV show.

I remember trying to piece together a series timeline c. 2016, but never finished it. I remember some placements being dependant on specific details (like every game featuring the Super Leaf coming after 3D Land, for example).

 

[Tsar Nicholas The Cringe]

Personally, if I had to give the series more story (outside of RPG games), I would probably go in a similar direction to the 1992 comics, though that might be better suited for a TV show.

I think the highlight of that 1992 comic was a Princess Peach who charged into battle and didn't give up. A lot of us would like to see more take-no-shit Princess Peach.

 

[Gavinski]

I could change my mind and come back to it at some point, I suppose. That said, I'd give the axe (or more dev time) to later spinoffs like Ultra Smash.

As for the Mario Kart rosters:

• Super: DK Jr Donkey Kong
• 64: DK and Kamek are both in the final release
• Super Circuit is the exact same
• Double Dash: Paratroopa Goomba
• DS: Shy Guy Kamek
• Wii: Baby Peach, Baby Daisy Prof E. Gadd, Toadsworth
• 7: Metal Mario, Honey Queen, Lakitu, Wiggler Waluigi, Midbus, Lubba, Captain Syrup

I'll cover 8 later on.

it's been a bit, but okay, I can wait for your perspective on 8

 

[Gavinski]

anyway, i'm gonna think of some "Theme Parrk" alt stuff give me a bit

 

[Gavinski]

Universal Studios to be specific:
the partnership with Nick is permanent, while Nick Blast 3d is still replaced, Toon Lagoon was later refurbished to be themed around spongebob.
Suess Landing is never made, instead taking it's place is a VERY earlier Mario Land. (thanks to the 1993 Mario movie preforming better, Nintendo is more trusting towards america. i'd also say that MAYBE simpsons land could be butterflied away by this, I like the idea of a pokemon land in it's place, especially considering the land could easily be rejuvinated with each pokemon generation bringing a cool mascot to take photos with)

 

[Twiggierjet]

Since I spoke about my ideal pop culture TL having the saints row reboot be good, I'm going to talk about what that might look like.

• To start, I actually like the south-west setting. Make it a little less cartoony but otherwise I think the location is a good one.
• Much like the reboot, the story focuses on the Saints just starting up rather then already established, but instead of being insufferable millenial/Gen Z stereotypes, the characters are a combination of actual dangerous amoral criminals and naive people looking for excitement, with a decent chunk of the story being devoted to the second group either dying, going to prison, or being corrupted into the first group. You will very explicitly not be playing the good guys, or even the least evil guys for that matter.
• The player character, in addition to the usual saints row appearance selector, also gets a choice of backstory, such as having recently gotten out of the military, out of prison, being a failed wall street broker heading west to find a new life, etc. This doesn't massively impact the game but will give you some unique options sometimes. After the game begins, you wind up working together with some other criminals, deciding to form a gang of your own and setting out to take over the city's underworld. The story takes place over multiple years rather then a few months, allowing you to really see the long-term effects of your actions.
• The enemy gangs are also actually threatening instead of jokes. The city is split between a rogue branch of a Mexican cartel (with many of their missions focusing on you taking them out as a favor to the rest of the cartel to get them on your side), a meth and gun-running biker gang, an organized crime group focusing on illegal gambling, fraud, and cybercrime, and a much altered version of the idols who began as a sort of "alliance of the exploited" ala the Mox from Cyberpunk 2077 but have since become just another gang.
• Saints Row is famous for allowing you to customize the look of your gang and the cars they drive, but here you get to actually influence the gang narratively. At various points in the story, you get to choose what direction the gang will go into with their criminal ventures, and your choices will influence everything from the aesthetic of your bases, to available side missions and perks, to the look of the city itself, with your choices ultimately culminating in whichever faction you ignored the most splitting off and forcing you to destroy them.
• I am a little torn on the time period. On the one hand I would love a saints row style game made as a period piece about the 2000s, but on the other hand going to modern route may be better.
• Jane Valderama comes back as the main news reporter because she is great.

 

[TheDetailer]

Since I spoke about my ideal pop culture TL having the saints row reboot be good, I'm going to talk about what that might look like.

• To start, I actually like the south-west setting. Make it a little less cartoony but otherwise I think the location is a good one.
• Much like the reboot, the story focuses on the Saints just starting up rather then already established, but instead of being insufferable millenial/Gen Z stereotypes, the characters are a combination of actual dangerous amoral criminals and naive people looking for excitement, with a decent chunk of the story being devoted to the second group either dying, going to prison, or being corrupted into the first group. You will very explicitly not be playing the good guys, or even the least evil guys for that matter.
• The player character, in addition to the usual saints row appearance selector, also gets a choice of backstory, such as having recently gotten out of the military, out of prison, being a failed wall street broker heading west to find a new life, etc. This doesn't massively impact the game but will give you some unique options sometimes. After the game begins, you wind up working together with some other criminals, deciding to form a gang of your own and setting out to take over the city's underworld. The story takes place over multiple years rather then a few months, allowing you to really see the long-term effects of your actions.
• The enemy gangs are also actually threatening instead of jokes. The city is split between a rogue branch of a Mexican cartel (with many of their missions focusing on you taking them out as a favor to the rest of the cartel to get them on your side), a meth and gun-running biker gang, an organized crime group focusing on illegal gambling, fraud, and cybercrime, and a much altered version of the idols who began as a sort of "alliance of the exploited" ala the Mox from Cyberpunk 2077 but have since become just another gang.
• Saints Row is famous for allowing you to customize the look of your gang and the cars they drive, but here you get to actually influence the gang narratively. At various points in the story, you get to choose what direction the gang will go into with their criminal ventures, and your choices will influence everything from the aesthetic of your bases, to available side missions and perks, to the look of the city itself, with your choices ultimately culminating in whichever faction you ignored the most splitting off and forcing you to destroy them.
• I am a little torn on the time period. On the one hand I would love a saints row style game made as a period piece about the 2000s, but on the other hand going to modern route may be better.
• Jane Valderama comes back as the main news reporter because she is great.

As a Saints Row 2 and 3 fan, based.

 

[CmdrShep2154]

An alternate 2010s where Game of Thrones and MCU are still popular but the J.J. Abrams Trek and Wars movies are either duds or not made and sci fi experiences a renaissance on TV.

In this TL "Syfy" either goes out of business or re-brands and gives us much higher quality sci fi programing.

In 2013 adaptations of "Fallout" and "Mass Effect" are brought to the small screen and the success of them inspires more enthusiastic support for nuclear arms reduction and more funding for space exploration worldwide.

Also during 2013 the "Discovery Channel" or "History Channel" airs a miniseries in the style of a documentary set in a fictional timeline, "For All Mankind" portraying a vision of an alternate world where the space race continued leading to accelerated scientific and technological development through 5-10 episodes.

It would be like "Star Trek Axanar".

Also "Tron: Uprising" and "Sym-Bionic Titan" become the most popular cartoons of the early to mid 2010s.

 

[Tsar Nicholas The Cringe]

I read somewhere that John Hughes designed his movies as a kind of shared universe in a fictional Chicago suburb called Shermer.

I wonder if Hughes ever considered merging several of his movies in crossovers to make Shermer feel like an authentic place, effectively creating a popular cinematic universe years before Marvel did. I think this would've been an exciting POD in film history since you would have some shared world that isn't based on lucrative comic IPs. In other words, the shared universe becomes something that livens up movies rather than becomes an excuse for their overt commercialization.

We could've had the potential for interesting stories: like, what if Dean Vernon lived next door to the McCallisters? Or what if Bender hung out with Ferris Bueller and helped him cut class?

I think that Hughes' passion for filmmaking was wrecked by John Candy's too-early demise, so I wonder if still had the energies, would he have tried to make this shared universe more plausible?

I think the Tarantino movies are along similar lines, but I don't know all the details.

 

[CmdrShep2154]

Imagine a timeline where the Cold War and space race never ended leading to a much more advanced world.

But this would be a world where sci fi like "Mass Effect" and the 2003 "Battlestar Galactica" reboot did not exist but "Firefly" ended it's run and has considerably more popularity in this TL than OTL.

In this TL there is no Soviet Afghan War and no 9/11 leading to a 2003 BSG reboot that is different but worse. This TL's 2003 BSG is a dud and ends up being cancelled only after one season.

The creative mind behind Mass Effect, Casey Hudson was in the Canadian Air Cadets with aspirations of becoming a military pilot in the Canadian Air Force.

https://issuu.com/uofaengineering/docs/enggmagfall2010web

Casey Hudson could be pretty well be a Canadian military pilot with the increased military spending in this TL and maybe perhaps even an astronaut in the Canadian space program flying alongside Chris Hadfield.

And the "SigCorp" games by Kan Gao would be made into sci fi novels and end up becoming successful critically acclaimed sci fi movies at some point during the ATL 2010s instead of becoming the OTL 2010s indie game series due to the internet being restricted to government use.