WI: Pop Culture in a world without 9/11?

[Canopus108]

It returned sometime in 2012 after China seized the Scarborough Shoal from the Philippines and had a stand-off with Japan over the Senkaku Islands.

True but it hasn't fully return to pre-9/11 until 2020 where COVID-19 pandemic happened.

To split the difference it seems like it happened in 2017. American polls in the 90s hit an unfavourable rating of 59 for China in 1999, before dropping. Polls would only reach 59% unfavourable again in the 2017-2018 period, likely due to Trump pivoting hard against China, Xi's consolidation of power, the South China Sea disputes, and Uyghur internment. Polling in America hit 2/3 negative with 2019's Hong Kong protests and a build-up of resentment over trade and 2021 would reach 82% unfavourable due to COVID.

I'm sure it was worse elsewhere, especially the Philippines given the SCS disputes would peak in the 90s before abating for a decade with bilateral negotiations, but for European and anglosphere countries it seems like the mid 2010s was the pivot.

As to the thread question:

For thrillers and spy movies we'd probably see less Bourne-inspired "warm beer" spy thrillers and more 90s Bond like the prescient Tomorrow Never Dies and 2002's ill-fated Die Another Day. Emphasis on high tech, rogue generals, and state actors as opposed to terrorists and criminal networks moving money.

War movies probably focus on recycling other conflicts or having sci-fi spectacle than anything like Hurt Locker or American Sniper. Shaky cam and filters are much rarer. "Realism" in war movies are less of a concern.

Other than that I think we probably see the same low-budget reality tv and "peak consumerism" of Humvees and McMansion. That was an outgrowth of the 90s end-of-history sentiment rather than a direct response to 9/11, and once the GFC hits the anti-wealth movement will probably be the same.

 

[Gillan1220]

In regards to the apocalypse orDfoomsday hype in the 2000s to the 2010s, alarmists really rode into it by saying Nostradamus predicted 9/11.

Did Nostradamus Really Predict the 9/11 Terrorist Attacks?

It's a story that began nearly a decade ago, circulated widely for months, and is still believed by many around the world: That the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Centers had been foretold by the famous sixteenth-century French writer Nostradamus. He wrote in ambiguous, nearly...

www.nbcnews.com

Even though it was written ambiguously. This gave off that exact Doomsday scare that Nostradamus predicted the end of the world but wasn't able to finish it.

 

[Johari Abdul Patah]

In regards to the apocalypse orDfoomsday hype in the 2000s to the 2010s, alarmists really rode into it by saying Nostradamus predicted 9/11.

Did Nostradamus Really Predict the 9/11 Terrorist Attacks?

It's a story that began nearly a decade ago, circulated widely for months, and is still believed by many around the world: That the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Centers had been foretold by the famous sixteenth-century French writer Nostradamus. He wrote in ambiguous, nearly...

www.nbcnews.com

Even though it was written ambiguously. This gave off that exact Doomsday scare that Nostradamus predicted the end of the world but wasn't able to finish it.

Somehow I feel 2012 end of the world prediction would still be trendy and the movie would still be made...

 

[Gillan1220]

Somehow I feel 2012 end of the world prediction would still be trendy and the movie would still be made...

That prediction predated Y2K but after 9/11, some diehard Christian Evangelicals started predicting about End Times seeing the War on Terror as the beginning of Armageddon. Then when the Nibiru collision did not occur in 2003, the ones that predicted it conveniently moved it to December 21, 2012.

 

[Twiggierjet]

Somehow I feel 2012 end of the world prediction would still be trendy and the movie would still be made...

Yeah it would, the main difference is that in this TL the movie would probably have a shot of the twin towers getting destroyed by a tsunami or something.

 

[JCC the Alt Historian]

A while back, my younger brother was researching info about Barbie doll lines for some reason and came across info about one of the former lines.

Apparently, the Barbie Generation Girl line ended shortly after 9/11 due to it being set in New York City. Had the attacks not happened, it's possible the line would have continued for at least a couple more years or so.

 

[woweed]

So, how do people think the Internet, which, at the time of 9/11, was just starting to turn from the Web 1.0 scrappiness to the modern corporatized Web 2.0 hellscape we know and love(?), would be different?

 

[Twiggierjet]

So, how do people think the Internet, which, at the time of 9/11, was just starting to turn from the Web 1.0 scrappiness to the modern corporatized Web 2.0 hellscape we know and love(?), would be different?

I don't think it really would be. I don't see how not having 9/11 really prevents or alters any of the changes that occurred with the internet over the decade.

 

[Reflection]

The main medium that would be affected most by no 9-11 would be the still brand new Video Game Industry. The 90s already brought on the rise of rap and gangs, and the Dark Age of Comics was still going strong. When it comes to movies, it's anyone's guess.

We probably wouldn't see a big boom of modern military shooters set in a War on Terror backdrop without 9/11. Beforehand, most shooters were either science fiction (Doom, Half-Life, Halo) or set in the past, particularly World War II (Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, Battlefield). Wolfenstein was a mix of both.

Granted, it wasn't instant but a process: World War II shooters dominated much of the early-mid aughts before the MMS became big in the late '00s/early '10s with Call of Duty: Modern Warfare leading the charge. In part, it was because people were actually getting sick of WWII games and it was derided as a cliché.

But I don't know if this would happen without 9/11. Without the conflicts in the Middle East being relevant to the average American, what would MMS games be about? I'm imagining spec ops missions in Latin America, Asia or Africa, or some made up war with Russia.

 

[ShoguntTrooper]

We probably wouldn't see a big boom of modern military shooters set in a War on Terror backdrop without 9/11. Beforehand, most shooters were either science fiction (Doom, Half-Life, Halo) or set in the past, particularly World War II (Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, Battlefield). Wolfenstein was a mix of both.

Granted, it wasn't instant but a process: World War II shooters dominated much of the early-mid aughts before the MMS became big in the late '00s/early '10s with Call of Duty: Modern Warfare leading the charge. In part, it was because people were actually getting sick of WWII games and it was derided as a cliché.

But I don't know if this would happen without 9/11. Without the conflicts in the Middle East being relevant to the average American, what would MMS games be about? I'm imagining spec ops missions in Latin America, Asia or Africa, or some made up war with Russia.

Modern Military Shooters were already a thing, the only thing 9/11 really did in that regard was give the genre a shot in the arm and become as big as it is now.

Without 9/11, MMS might not become as massive, but may still take up a good chunk of the genre, and we'd probably see a different focus. Less Special Ops and Counter-Terrorism stuff that games like Counter Strike, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, and later on Rainbow Six got famous for or centered their identity and designs around, but more along the lines of either a fictional military conflict ala Battlefield, where the adversary is Russia, China, maybe even North Korea, or, if they still take place in a Middle Eastern theater (which is a big if), then it is likely to be modeled after the Gulf War, the most recent reasonably big military conflict the US was part of, where you'd fight some fictionalized version of Saddam's Military, rather than against militiamen and insurgents. In any case, the visual imagery of the US soldier in desert camouflage and caked in dust and sand likely won't be as prevalent in the Shooter genre as it is now.

But I agree, Sci-Fi would likely still remain a juggernaut, rather than being forced onto the backseat.

Speaking of caked in dust and sand, or rather an object used in the prevention of it, there was a period post-2001 where the Keffiyeh/Shemagh was rather popular, especially among teenagers and among Hipster and Punk circles (and to an extent still is), usually worn as scarves. This, while small, obviously won't happen ITTL. It might still become some sort of fashion accessory at some point, but the circumstances of how that happens would likely drastically differ, as the idea was allegedly introduced by US soldiers who wore them around their necks and as masks to keep sand and dust out of their faces. Something like that had already happened in I think the 80s because of the Israel Palestine conflict, but also died off not long after.

 

[Twiggierjet]

But I don't know if this would happen without 9/11. Without the conflicts in the Middle East being relevant to the average American, what would MMS games be about? I'm imagining spec ops missions in Latin America, Asia or Africa, or some made up war with Russia.

I'm guessing a lot of Russia being the bad guy (even OTL with the war on terror in everyone's minds, call of duty 4 still had the bulk of the plot be about Russia)

 

[Gillan1220]

We probably wouldn't see a big boom of modern military shooters set in a War on Terror backdrop without 9/11. Beforehand, most shooters were either science fiction (Doom, Half-Life, Halo) or set in the past, particularly World War II (Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, Battlefield). Wolfenstein was a mix of both.

Granted, it wasn't instant but a process: World War II shooters dominated much of the early-mid aughts before the MMS became big in the late '00s/early '10s with Call of Duty: Modern Warfare leading the charge. In part, it was because people were actually getting sick of WWII games and it was derided as a cliché.

But I don't know if this would happen without 9/11. Without the conflicts in the Middle East being relevant to the average American, what would MMS games be about? I'm imagining spec ops missions in Latin America, Asia or Africa, or some made up war with Russia.

Modern Military Shooters were already a thing, the only thing 9/11 really did in that regard was give the genre a shot in the arm and become as big as it is now.

Without 9/11, MMS might not become as massive, but may still take up a good chunk of the genre, and we'd probably see a different focus. Less Special Ops and Counter-Terrorism stuff that games like Counter Strike, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, and later on Rainbow Six got famous for or centered their identity and designs around, but more along the lines of either a fictional military conflict ala Battlefield, where the adversary is Russia, China, maybe even North Korea, or, if they still take place in a Middle Eastern theater (which is a big if), then it is likely to be modeled after the Gulf War, the most recent reasonably big military conflict the US was part of, where you'd fight some fictionalized version of Saddam's Military, rather than against militiamen and insurgents. In any case, the visual imagery of the US soldier in desert camouflage and caked in dust and sand likely won't be as prevalent in the Shooter genre as it is now.

But I agree, Sci-Fi would likely still remain a juggernaut, rather than being forced onto the backseat.

Speaking of caked in dust and sand, or rather an object used in the prevention of it, there was a period post-2001 where the Keffiyeh/Shemagh was rather popular, especially among teenagers and among Hipster and Punk circles (and to an extent still is), usually worn as scarves. This, while small, obviously won't happen ITTL. It might still become some sort of fashion accessory at some point, but the circumstances of how that happens would likely drastically differ, as the idea was allegedly introduced by US soldiers who wore them around their necks and as masks to keep sand and dust out of their faces. Something like that had already happened in I think the 80s because of the Israel Palestine conflict, but also died off not long after.

You'd probably see more games on the spy genre such as Splinter Cell or other forms of Tom Clancy technothrillers. The enemy may still be Russia, China, North Korea, or a fictional Middle Eastern or Latin American dictatorship that is planning some form of attack on the United States.

The Japanese made Metal Slug in 1996 and the main villain was a take on Saddam, Hitler, Noriega, and Stalin combined. Modern military shooters could take on those likes. So even without the GWOT, I could still see shooters like SOCOM U.S. Navy SEALs take off being set in a rogue nation that funds terrorism or drugs.

Sci-Fi would definitely be at it for sure.

 

[Twiggierjet]

You'd probably see more games on the spy genre such as Splinter Cell or other forms of Tom Clancy technothrillers. The enemy may still be Russia, China, North Korea, or a fictional Middle Eastern or Latin American dictatorship that is planning some form of attack on the United States.

Remember when Splinter Cell had an all-powerful cell of the NSA spying on everyone and they were portrayed as the heroes? Times sure were different back then...

 

[Gillan1220]

Remember when Splinter Cell had an all-powerful cell of the NSA spying on everyone and they were portrayed as the heroes? Times sure were different back then...

Speaking of that, how will people in a No 9/11 TL react to NSA, CIA, and FBI spying on American citizens? I know this was a product of the Patriot Act and was viewed very negatively by the American public as it showed the government was gaining to much power?

Here will it be a mere nuisance or will it still receive the same outrage?

 

[Twiggierjet]

Speaking of that, how will people in a No 9/11 TL react to NSA, CIA, and FBI spying on American citizens? I know this was a product of the Patriot Act and was viewed very negatively by the American public as it showed the government was gaining to much power?

Here will it be a mere nuisance or will it still receive the same outrage?

Well, without 9/11 a lot of that stuff either outright wouldnt pass or would generate mass outrage almost immidiately and so probably wouldn't go as far.

 

[Gillan1220]

Well, without 9/11 a lot of that stuff either outright wouldnt pass or would generate mass outrage almost immidiately and so probably wouldn't go as far.

So that also butterflies away the Edward Snowden leaks?

 

[Twiggierjet]

So that also butterflies away the Edward Snowden leaks?

It probably butterflies away a lot of the stuff he leaked in the first place.

 

[Meester Collins]

The fascination of going to Alpha Centauri on a weekend vacation

 

[TimTurner]

Arthur's 9/11 episode is never made.

 

[TheKennedyMachine.]

Arthur's 9/11 episode is never made.

Here's a really good video essay on that episode -- highly suggest everyone check it out.