WI/AHC: Maximillian of Spain, not of Mexico? Spanish Habsburgs revival?

So, Maximilian of Habsburg does not accept the Mexican Throne in the 1860s, thus denying Napoleon III his Habsburg Monarch and also his French interests in Mexico, but is it possible, during the Spanish Revolution of 1868, that a surviving Maximillian could be offered the Spanish throne as a compromise, instead of Leopold, Prince of Hohenzollern.

If successful, could you see Spain in WW1 with a Franco-Spanish front on the Pyrenees? Assuming of course that Maximillian and Franz-Josef remain close during all these years...

But a Spanish Monarchy with a House of Habsburg revival could be intriguing....
 
I'm not sure if Spain would be a valuable ally, I think you would get more use out of them with the threat of them joining. Tying down French battalions on the border or even making them pause to think before committing to the war in July due to the threat of two fronts. Likewise, Spain would have to guard its coastline and keep a reserve against Portugal away from a French front. And of course Gibraltar.

A Spanish entry would probably be followed by a Portuguese one once Britain is involved, thus you get the Peninsular War 2.0.

Each Entente division in the field against Spain is missing on the Western Front, so it is possible that they might tip the balance before the US gets its armies deployed, but it would not be an enviable position because they'd be cut off from the other Central Powers and therefore suffering alone.
 

Basils

Banned
I'm not sure if Spain would be a valuable ally, I think you would get more use out of them with the threat of them joining. Tying down French battalions on the border or even making them pause to think before committing to the war in July due to the threat of two fronts. Likewise, Spain would have to guard its coastline and keep a reserve against Portugal away from a French front. And of course Gibraltar.

A Spanish entry would probably be followed by a Portuguese one once Britain is involved, thus you get the Peninsular War 2.0.

Each Entente division in the field against Spain is missing on the Western Front, so it is possible that they might tip the balance before the US gets its armies deployed, but it would not be an enviable position because they'd be cut off from the other Central Powers and therefore suffering alone.
A more stable Spain that wasn’t a mess for decades going into WWI might be close to Italy is power wise. Or maybe even Romania with a bit more fleet. Would make for a lot of butterflies. As OTTL Spain could basically be ignored
 
A more stable Spain that wasn’t a mess for decades going into WWI might be close to Italy is power wise. Or maybe even Romania with a bit more fleet. Would make for a lot of butterflies. As OTTL Spain could basically be ignored
Sure it would be stronger, but it has a lot of places to defend. Especially since it stands no chance against the combined French and British navies, so the threat of invasion and naval raids is rather large.
 

Basils

Banned
Sure it would be stronger, but it has a lot of places to defend. Especially since it stands no chance against the combined French and British navies, so the threat of invasion and naval raids is rather large.
Of course. But it would be an actual concern of some note. In WWII I think fended had a single battalion guarding against Spain in 1940. Which is essentially nothing. More troops means more distractions and resources away from the main front. Plus they might make the WAllies give bribes to Spain to stay out. All a net loss for the entente. They might even send troops to fight for AH. A small contingent, but it could be possible
 
So, Maximilian of Habsburg does not accept the Mexican Throne in the 1860s, thus denying Napoleon III his Habsburg Monarch and also his French interests in Mexico, but is it possible, during the Spanish Revolution of 1868, that a surviving Maximillian could be offered the Spanish throne as a compromise, instead of Leopold, Prince of Hohenzollern.

If successful, could you see Spain in WW1 with a Franco-Spanish front on the Pyrenees? Assuming of course that Maximillian and Franz-Josef remain close during all these years...

But a Spanish Monarchy with a House of Habsburg revival could be intriguing....
For starters Maximilian rejecting the offer butterflies parts of the French Intervention, so the state of the opposing forces in later conflicts also change. The French may pull back from the country sooner than IOTL after their candidate rejected the crown and the Mexicans proven hostile to occupation. That said, for Maximilian to become king of Spain there would have to be some changes in the aftermath of the 1868 revolution in Spain. IOTL the Habsburgs were not seriously considered as candidates due to the folly in Mexico, but they would still be secondary candidates. On the frontline, as OTL, it is likely that the liberals promote the candidature of Ferdinand of Coburg as king, him being the father of the king of Portugal, with the liberals hoping for an Iberian Union and Ferdinand rejecting the crown as he feared his coronation in Madrid would result in Spain annexing Portugal. As for the conservatives, they supported the Bourbon Duke of Montpensier, but he got disqualified after he killed another Bourbon in a duel (plus Napoleon III wouldn't approve another Bourbon in Spain). So then the Spanish turned to other candidates, and that's where Maximilian could come in. The Habsburgs ruled Spain for close to two centuries, and they were supported in parts of the country, especially in the east where there were hopes of restoring the Fueros of the former Crown of Aragon (which wouldn't happen anyways). Maximilian would be more palatable to the European powers than Leopold of Hohenzollern, and there were complications with choosing an Italian candidate.

That being said, even if Spain had a Habsburg monarch, I think Spain would not side with the Central Powers. After all, the Germans proved to be quite antagonistic to the Spanish in the latter third of the 19th Century, trying to snatch the Caroline and Mariana islands from them and resulting in a crisis that had to be mediated by the Pope; the German claims in Equatorial Africa overlapped with the Spanish claims dating back to the Treaty of El Pardo; Germany exerted pressure on Spain to lease a minor Caribbean island; and the Germans also interfered in the Franco-Spanish attempts to establish a protectorate over Morocco. Spain was also dependant on British coal, with Britain and France being its largest trade partners. Hispano-German relations may have been positive up to the 1880's or 1890's, but after that point I see Spain trending towards a more neutral policy in European affairs, especially after the Franco-British agreements, which would surround Spain should they side with the Germans. Being a relatively poor country with no major territorial aspirations nor irredentist claims against its neighbours, there is very little incentive for even a Habsburg-ruled Spain to fight on the side of the Central Powers.
 
If successful, could you see Spain in WW1 with a Franco-Spanish front on the Pyrenees? Assuming of course that Maximillian and Franz-Josef remain close during all these years...
There is a 0% Spain is going to involve itself in the First World War. It is at this point a complete backwater, to the extent that calling it a second rate power is generous. One redeployed veteran French Army would probably wipe out whatever moribund forces Madrid could stitch together, whilst the country would immediately face starvation from an Entente blockade.

Familial ties weren't really a factor in monarchs deciding to go to war at this point (save perhaps for Greece, though Constantine is a special kind of incompetent fool). The King of Denmark's aunts for example were both Dowager Empress' of Entente nations, but it did not convince him to join with no clear war aim for his country.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
There is a 0% Spain is going to involve itself in the First World War. It is at this point a complete backwater, to the extent that calling it a second rate power is generous. One redeployed veteran French Army would probably wipe out whatever moribund forces Madrid could stitch together, whilst the country would immediately face starvation from an Entente blockade.

Familial ties weren't really a factor in monarchs deciding to go to war at this point (save perhaps for Greece, though Constantine is a special kind of incompetent fool). The King of Denmark's aunts for example were both Dowager Empress' of Entente nations, but it did not convince him to join with no clear war aim for his country.
Well that and the fact that it was his ministers rather than the king himself who decided where the country went to war.
 
Well that and the fact that it was his ministers rather than the king himself who decided where the country went to war.
I was under the impression the Danish King still exercised some soft power, and never displayed any real interest in joining the war? Could be wrong though, Danish internal politics in the early 20th century isn't exactly a topic I'm well versed in.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
I was under the impression the Danish King still exercised some soft power, and never displayed any real interest in joining the war? Could be wrong though, Danish internal politics in the early 20th century isn't exactly a topic I'm well versed in.
I think they still had some soft power aye, but the general trend seems to be thay the ministers did most of the heavy lifting. @King of Danes knows more tho
 
For starters Maximilian rejecting the offer butterflies parts of the French Intervention, so the state of the opposing forces in later conflicts also change. The French may pull back from the country sooner than IOTL after their candidate rejected the crown and the Mexicans proven hostile to occupation. That said, for Maximilian to become king of Spain there would have to be some changes in the aftermath of the 1868 revolution in Spain. IOTL the Habsburgs were not seriously considered as candidates due to the folly in Mexico, but they would still be secondary candidates. On the frontline, as OTL, it is likely that the liberals promote the candidature of Ferdinand of Coburg as king, him being the father of the king of Portugal, with the liberals hoping for an Iberian Union and Ferdinand rejecting the crown as he feared his coronation in Madrid would result in Spain annexing Portugal. As for the conservatives, they supported the Bourbon Duke of Montpensier, but he got disqualified after he killed another Bourbon in a duel (plus Napoleon III wouldn't approve another Bourbon in Spain). So then the Spanish turned to other candidates, and that's where Maximilian could come in. The Habsburgs ruled Spain for close to two centuries, and they were supported in parts of the country, especially in the east where there were hopes of restoring the Fueros of the former Crown of Aragon (which wouldn't happen anyways). Maximilian would be more palatable to the European powers than Leopold of Hohenzollern, and there were complications with choosing an Italian candidate.

That being said, even if Spain had a Habsburg monarch, I think Spain would not side with the Central Powers. After all, the Germans proved to be quite antagonistic to the Spanish in the latter third of the 19th Century, trying to snatch the Caroline and Mariana islands from them and resulting in a crisis that had to be mediated by the Pope; the German claims in Equatorial Africa overlapped with the Spanish claims dating back to the Treaty of El Pardo; Germany exerted pressure on Spain to lease a minor Caribbean island; and the Germans also interfered in the Franco-Spanish attempts to establish a protectorate over Morocco. Spain was also dependant on British coal, with Britain and France being its largest trade partners. Hispano-German relations may have been positive up to the 1880's or 1890's, but after that point I see Spain trending towards a more neutral policy in European affairs, especially after the Franco-British agreements, which would surround Spain should they side with the Germans. Being a relatively poor country with no major territorial aspirations nor irredentist claims against its neighbours, there is very little incentive for even a Habsburg-ruled Spain to fight on the side of the Central Powers.
If Spain gets a Habsburg, it will probably have some treaties with Austria Hungary. Not necessarily an alliance, but economic cooperation, tarifs and whatnot. And with Austria Hungary as Germany's natural ally, it is unlikely that they would mess with them in the same fashion as OTL. Again, they might not be friends, but a Habsburg Spain would probably be seen more like a potential partner (for trade).
 
I think one problem Maximilian would have to deal with like Amadeo I had in OTL were the Carlists under Carlos VII, Republicans, and assassinations attempts. IOTL, Amadeo I called it quits because Spain was such a mess and left. So, Maximilian would have to survive all that.
 
I think one problem Maximilian would have to deal with like Amadeo I had in OTL were the Carlists under Carlos VII, Republicans, and assassinations attempts. IOTL, Amadeo I called it quits because Spain was such a mess and left. So, Maximilian would have to survive all that.
Well, seeing as he stayed in Mexico until the bitter end, at least he wouldn't leave. Though being too liberal for the conservatives but too conservative for the liberals is rarely good for a political figure's health...
 
Well, seeing as he stayed in Mexico until the bitter end, at least he wouldn't leave. Though being too liberal for the conservatives but too conservative for the liberals is rarely good for a political figure's health...
For Spain already a very conservative/reactionary for prim he would be a bless.but prim survival is very vital for max and vice versa. If anything he got the right throne here( even if should have been Leopold sigmarinen)
 
I was under the impression the Danish King still exercised some soft power, and never displayed any real interest in joining the war? Could be wrong though, Danish internal politics in the early 20th century isn't exactly a topic I'm well versed in.
In theory the Danish monarch did and still does have a fair bit of power, but as shown when Christian X meddled in the Slesvig question in 1920, if they ever use it, it will likely mean revolution. Denmark is not entering WWI if it’s only because the king wants it. They will likely stay neutral unless one of the sides seriously provoke them, and even then it’s unlikely since Denmark made a hefty chunk of money by staying neutral and selling canned goods to both sides
 
So, Maximilian of Habsburg does not accept the Mexican Throne in the 1860s, thus denying Napoleon III his Habsburg Monarch and also his French interests in Mexico, but is it possible, during the Spanish Revolution of 1868, that a surviving Maximillian could be offered the Spanish throne as a compromise, instead of Leopold, Prince of Hohenzollern.

If successful, could you see Spain in WW1 with a Franco-Spanish front on the Pyrenees? Assuming of course that Maximillian and Franz-Josef remain close during all these years...

But a Spanish Monarchy with a House of Habsburg revival could be intriguing....
This might be doable, but there will be butterflies well before 1914.
 
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