What Good Would the French Fleet Have Done the Germans in 1942?

Anaxagoras

Banned
Much is made of the scuttling of the Vichy French fleet at Toulon in the aftermath of the Allied invasion of North Africa and the German occupation of southern France. But what good would it really have done the Germans if they had captured the ships? Where would they have gotten crews to man them? Even if one could find German and Italian sailors, how easy would it have been for them to use vessels built by the French? The Italians were greatly hindered at this point by a lack of fuel for their ships, so how much worse would the acquisition of all these battleships, cruisers, and destroyers have made that situation?

Thoughts?
 
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steamboy

in truth, it would have done them little good, as you rightly pointed out you've got to find the crews and you've got to find a large number of Germans who can read French fluently enough to understand all the stuff aboard ship. You'd have to train them up on the engines, the weapons etc etc etc.
 

tigercat

Commandant Teste would have made an interesting raider . However 1942 was probably too late in the war . They'd have had to convert some hangar space into extra fuel storage though.

Battleships would be best employed as a fleet in being sucking up allied resources while they swung at anchor in some Norwegian fjord . Allies unsure if they were fully crewed or not .
 

naraic

tigercat said:
Commandant Teste would have made an interesting raider . However 1942 was probably too late in the war . They'd have had to convert some hangar space into extra fuel storage though.

Battleships would be best employed as a fleet in being sucking up allied resources while they swung at anchor in some Norwegian fjord . Allies unsure if they were fully crewed or not .
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Surely they would have been stuck in the Med.
 

steamboy

tigercat said:
Commandant Teste would have made an interesting raider . However 1942 was probably too late in the war . They'd have had to convert some hangar space into extra fuel storage though.

Battleships would be best employed as a fleet in being sucking up allied resources while they swung at anchor in some Norwegian fjord . Allies unsure if they were fully crewed or not .
Click to expand...

One minor problem there's Gibraltar in the way and probably many allied ships who would be eager to leap at a chance to get at the now German controlled warships.
 

Deleted member 1487

Functionally in terms of the use of the ships not much. But as a fleet in being given how cautious the Allies were, it probably prevents Operation Dragoon and scares them about amphibious operations near Southern France.
 
Driftless

Driftless

Donor
Which of the French ships had sufficient "legs", speed, armament, and accomodations to be commerce raiders? Dunkerque & Strasbourg? Most of the rest of the cruisers were designed for the the Med, correct?
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Driftless said:
Which of the French ships had sufficient "legs", speed, armament, and accomodations to be commerce raiders? Dunkerque & Strasbourg? Most of the rest of the cruisers were designed for the the Med, correct?
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There's no way any of those ships are getting past Gibraltar.
 

Archibald

Banned
Fleet in being in Toulon harbor would certainly be a nightmare for the WAllies. But manpower might be an issue.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Driftless said:
What resources do you commit to keep them from the attempt?
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These.

9.2_inch_gun_on_Gibraltar_1942_IWM_GM_278.jpg
 

nbcman

Donor
The only parts of the Vichy French fleet that would be of any use for Germany in the Atlantic is what was left at Dakar (1 BB, 2 CL, 2 DD) and Casablanca (1 BB, 1 CL, 9 DD). But they are far from Germany's reach and are in varying stages of disrepair.
 

eltf177

Not only crews but ammunition, spare parts and fuel.

It might have made an interesting bargaining chip but little else...
 

edvardas

If Turkey would allow them through the straits, or look the other way, while the the axis "forced" the straits. It would be very useful in the Black Sea. The sixth army would have a better chance and the Germans could stay in the caucasus longer. They would have to get the French fleet before October
 

torten

The French fleet in Toulon would have been a good catch for the Germans. The Destroyers and Torpedo Boats, as well as the Light Cruisers could have been quite handy in convoy runs to North Africa, and Commandant Teste would have made an excellent Transport ship. Quite how many the Germans could man is another question. Might the Italians man a few? The submarines might have been used by the Germans in the Med, while the Battleships, the heavy cruisers, and anything the Germans couldn't man might have just ended up with skeleton crews to man the AA guns, and keep them from sinking. The Royal Navy might get a chance for Taranto 2.0.
 

ObssesedNuker

As a threat-in-being they could probably tie down WAllied naval assets in the Med for awhile, at least until the WAllies can fish up some fleet carriers to hammer their port. The light assets could probably get some use in a raiding role.
 

Zheng He

I thought most if the ships were in various states of disrepair and not really seaworthy. That's why they were scuttled. The ones that could run to the Allies did.
 

Admiral Beez

Banned
Can assume that none of the French crews would serve the Vichy government? If the fleet is taken intact, perhaps Hitler is included to pull a Bismarck and to withdraw from France entirely, leaving behind a puppet government; one with a sizeable fleet.
 

Carl Schwamberger

Driftless said:
What resources do you commit to keep them from the attempt?
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Minefields in the strait were as or more important than the cannon @ Gibraltar. Force H & later groups of capitol ships were kept in arms reach of the strait to supplement the minefields. Further out on both sides there were usually submarines on patrol. To put it another way forcing the strait is a naval battle with attendant damage to do something about afterwards. Large holes in the ships hulls limits their next destination to a few ports with large dry docks.
 
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