Thought Experiment: How Would You Defend Against a US Invasion?

That is not why NK still survives. There was no viable military option before they had nukes because of the proximity of Seoul to the DMZ. The North's ability to cause massive civilian casualties, and damage to the ROK economy restrained the U.S. from taking military action. The nuclear program nearly caused a preemptive attack in 1994. Holding a U.S. ally hostage is a surer defense then having a few nukes.
They can like nuke a nearby US ally there, like Kuwait or so, So its also preetty much restrained
 
Have generals meet secretly in an important cultural site so the US can't bomb it even if it finds out where they are under the Geneva Convention. Send orders by paper so the US can't read them in advance.

Have the armed forces fight like the IRA did in 1917-1922. Kill soldiers, officers, spies, any snitches, and harass the USA until it gives up and goes home. Have the subs torpedo US ships if they can get away with it. Send assassins under false passports to the US to kill Congressmen, Senators, generals if they can.
This reads like an AHC on how to get the USA to repeat the Filipino-American War.
Once you got them, your all set.

Look at North Korea
First of all the US was NOT intent on invading North Korea. Secondly, North Korea had an alliance with China, which already had nukes. Thirdly, if North Korea had sheltered Osama bin Ladin after 9/11, there would have been a 2nd Korean War.
 
First of all the US was NOT intent on invading North Korea. Secondly, North Korea had an alliance with China, which already had nukes. Thirdly, if North Korea had sheltered Osama bin Ladin after 9/11, there would have been a 2nd Korean War.
Definitely they will back down, if I'm like dictator of that tinpot country, which they were under threat of invasion my army won't repel and has nukes. I will instead threaten to nuke like Israel or Kuwait or others if they don't back down. Which they will obviously back down. Or the world will be a some kind of appocolypse land
 
I would suggest Iran Wesnar use strategies similar to what was detailed in the Millennium Challenge https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

I.e. don’t engage the US in a direct battle on any front, deny them the ability to use their technological supremacy, and make the war cost so much in money, time, material and men that they cut their losses.

You realize that “Iran” in the Millennium Challenge only “won” because of extensive cheating, yes?
 

jparker77

Banned
Not really enough information. How big is the country in terms of size, and population? Has the regime destroyed civil society, so that there's no possible alternative leadership that the Americans can work with? Are there violent divisions in the country along sectarian lines? Was the regimes power base a minority, or majority group? Are the groups in the mountains loyal to the regime? Can the regime count on support from other anti-Western forces in the region, or a major power that will reflexively want to kill Americans? Is this country of any real strategic valve to the Americans, or the West? You did say they only had a moderate amount of oil production. There are just so many X factors to consider before any workable strategy can be devised.


The regime has support from some of the tribes in the mountains; many of them just want to be left alone, but there is sufficient support base for some sort of base camps to be established for a guerrilla resistance. Similar to Gaddafi‘s Libya, the country during the Cold War had set up training camps in the deep mountains for various left wing insurgent groups.

Relations with Russia are pretty warm. Relations with China aren’t quite as warm, but still positive.

The regime is a majority regime; the largest minority are the mountain tribes, who compose roughly 25 percent of the population. The country is about 85 percent Sunni, 10 percent Shia and the remaining 5 percent being a mix of other religions such as Christianity.
 
Just a thought experiment I was curious to see if anyone was interested in.

It’s the early 2000s, and you are the autocratic leader of Wesnar, a mid sized, coastal Middle Eastern nation. Wesnar’s interior is dominated by extensive mountain ranges while much of the time economic activity and major cities are along the coast; Wesnar also produces a moderate amount of oil. Wesnar was friendly to the eastern bloc during the Cold War and received a decent amount of military aid from them during the conflict. Wesnar has a long history of smuggling both from land and naval routes. It also supplied anti Western terrorist groups, meaning relations with the US were usually cool at best.

In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks the US has decided Wesnar is a state sponsor of terror and has decided to invade and “liberate” the country.

The people of Wesnar are, outside of the elites, not extremely enthusiastic about autocratic rule, but they are deeply nationalistic due to a long war for independence against the former European colonial and therefore are willing to fight against a foreign invasion.

Wesnar’s army is equipped with AK-74s and the like for small arms. The country possesses roughly 200 T-55s and 120 T-72 tanks, as well as some BTRs and BMPs. The army is fairly well trained, and there are several elite “Republican Guard” type units.

The navy has two dozen or so missile boats, a mix of Osas and Tarantuls, plus gunboats got anti-smuggler patrols. It also has four Kilo class submarines.

The air force has roughly fifty MiG-21s and another fifty MiG-29s, plus roughly 30 Su-24 ground attack aircraft. It also possesses numerous helicopters, including Mi-24 Hind attack helicopters.

Given all that information, how would you go about defending Wesnar?

Don’t attempt to defend against the invasion. You can’t win.

Instead disperse personnel and weapons around the country and be prepared to fight a protracted guerrilla campaign. If you have chemical weapons, wait until the US has already moved into national building operations and then hit US bases with them.
 
Definitely they will back down, if I'm like dictator of that tinpot country, which they were under threat of invasion my army won't repel and has nukes. I will instead threaten to nuke like Israel or Kuwait or others if they don't back down. Which they will obviously back down. Or the world will be a some kind of appocolypse land
Not if you're protecting a terrorist who just killed 3,000 Americans.
 
Just a thought experiment I was curious to see if anyone was interested in.

It’s the early 2000s, and you are the autocratic leader of Wesnar, a mid sized, coastal Middle Eastern nation. Wesnar’s interior is dominated by extensive mountain ranges while much of the time economic activity and major cities are along the coast; Wesnar also produces a moderate amount of oil. Wesnar was friendly to the eastern bloc during the Cold War and received a decent amount of military aid from them during the conflict. Wesnar has a long history of smuggling both from land and naval routes. It also supplied anti Western terrorist groups, meaning relations with the US were usually cool at best.

In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks the US has decided Wesnar is a state sponsor of terror and has decided to invade and “liberate” the country.

The people of Wesnar are, outside of the elites, not extremely enthusiastic about autocratic rule, but they are deeply nationalistic due to a long war for independence against the former European colonial and therefore are willing to fight against a foreign invasion.

Wesnar’s army is equipped with AK-74s and the like for small arms. The country possesses roughly 200 T-55s and 120 T-72 tanks, as well as some BTRs and BMPs. The army is fairly well trained, and there are several elite “Republican Guard” type units.

The navy has two dozen or so missile boats, a mix of Osas and Tarantuls, plus gunboats got anti-smuggler patrols. It also has four Kilo class submarines.

The air force has roughly fifty MiG-21s and another fifty MiG-29s, plus roughly 30 Su-24 ground attack aircraft. It also possesses numerous helicopters, including Mi-24 Hind attack helicopters.

Given all that information, how would you go about defending Wesnar?
I would roll over and not oppose the invasion and enjoy 20 years of $ investments from the USA.

And then once they leave declare victory!

🤣
 
Not if you're protecting a terrorist who just killed 3,000 Americans.
Did they even have enough proof on stuff, look what happened after they like invaded Iraq. They didn't have enough proof to convince many they just went in and swooped later that destroyed Iraq which resulted into today's mess. It got into a worse spot compared when it was Saddam ruling it when it was stable. obviously the usa did not back down in Iraq because they new Saddam don't have nukes and will lose. Because If they knew would they even dare attack the place if there is ever any nukes and they knew Saddam has the nuke button.

Well if this hypotethical country has one. I doubt the us would dare like try mess with them as just one press of a button and ka boom. Their world becoming apocalypse. Also the USA needs good proof and reason why they should here attack a nuclear power. Not some regular tinpot petrostate. A Petrotate with nukes
 
You realize that “Iran” in the Millennium Challenge only “won” because of extensive cheating, yes?
Well obviously the clear wargaming aspects (another person mentioned Red team used teleporting couriers) can be removed, but the general concept that you can’t fight the US conventionally remains clear. If you can’t win politically or diplomatically, (as some others have suggested in various forms) then it makes sense to use your resources in unconventional manners. When applicable, using runners and heliographs instead of radios, suicide attacks, meshing civilian and combatant fighters, digging into forests/mountains, destroying infrastructure chokepoints and the like, and generally accepting that this will be a long, costly war. Even then, it’s no guarantee, and it all relies on the US’s willingness to persecute the war
 
Did they even have enough proof on stuff, look what happened after they like invaded Iraq. They didn't have enough proof to convince many they just went in and swooped later that destroyed Iraq which resulted into today's mess. It got into a worse spot compared when it was Saddam ruling it when it was stable. obviously the usa did not back down in Iraq because they new Saddam don't have nukes and will lose. Because If they knew would they even dare attack the place if there is ever any nukes and they knew Saddam has the nuke button.

Well if this hypotethical country has one. I doubt the us would dare like try mess with them as just one press of a button and ka boom. Their world becoming apocalypse. Also the USA needs good proof and reason why they should here attack a nuclear power. Not some regular tinpot petrostate. A Petrotate with nukes
The Taliban was quite open about protecting Osama bin Ladin.
 
The Taliban was quite open about protecting Osama bin Ladin.
But did the hypotethical country is ? Or did Iraq did otl? No ofc not. Did they directly like protect that terrorist,,? Technically no so it's also unjustified for the USA to go there and do stuff they want and curb that state into a mere puppet.

Waht I'm saying is that if they have nukes and other detterent the USA would not go there swooth the place invade it later place a pro American regime after. Instead would just leave them alone
 
They can like nuke a nearby US ally there, like Kuwait or so, So its also preetty much restrained
They still need a reliable delivery system, which is no easy feat. NK has thousands of rocket launchers, and artillery tubes in range of Seoul, which are much harder to deal with.
 
2002 US Military is going to easily win a conventional war against literally anyone not named Russia*.
Its not like today with proliferation of ISR, long range precision fires, and badly won out US equipment that you at least have a fighting chance to hold on for a ew months.
*Russia at least has the equipment to match, but 2002 was about the nadir of its military organization.
Maybe I’m naive but I don’t think the Russians would do well in a conventional war with us in ‘02 or at all given recent performances as well as their techs performance in the gulf war.
 
Hence I said the Russians are the only ones against whom the US wouldn’t easily win.
Failing to lose easily isn’t the same as winni ng.
 

Puzzle

Donor
Maybe I’m naive but I don’t think the Russians would do well in a conventional war with us in ‘02 or at all given recent performances as well as their techs performance in the gulf war.
That’s because you haven’t been told about maskirovka and deep battle doctrines and how they only export crappy versions and how the Russian machines never break and how the Russians would have won WWII all by themselves and how everything wrong with everything is the US’s fault and how the Russians used a pencil instead of a zero gravity pen enough.

If you compare how the US fought halfway around the world with how the Russians fight next door I agree it’s hard not to see a massive gulf. It’s sort of a moot point anyway as any direct conflict that gets decisive likely leads to a nuclear exchange.
 
Did they even have enough proof on stuff, look what happened after they like invaded Iraq. They didn't have enough proof to convince many they just went in and swooped later that destroyed Iraq which resulted into today's mess. It got into a worse spot compared when it was Saddam ruling it when it was stable. obviously the usa did not back down in Iraq because they new Saddam don't have nukes and will lose. Because If they knew would they even dare attack the place if there is ever any nukes and they knew Saddam has the nuke button.

Well if this hypotethical country has one. I doubt the us would dare like try mess with them as just one press of a button and ka boom. Their world becoming apocalypse. Also the USA needs good proof and reason why they should here attack a nuclear power. Not some regular tinpot petrostate. A Petrotate with nukes
Respectfully I don't think you understand how nuclear weapons work. There is no button to press that turns the world into apocalypse. Only Darkseid can do that. Boom tubes opening in the sky, Parademons swarming out of them. Sorry just a nightmare.
 
But did the hypotethical country is ? Or did Iraq did otl? No ofc not. Did they directly like protect that terrorist,,? Technically no so it's also unjustified for the USA to go there and do stuff they want and curb that state into a mere puppet.

Waht I'm saying is that if they have nukes and other detterent the USA would not go there swooth the place invade it later place a pro American regime after. Instead would just leave them alone
North Korea's nuclear program was not about deterring an American attack. If it were really the only thing stopping a South Korean-US invasion, it NEVER would have been allowed to get as far as it has. It was always about internal power. The Kims used it to promote a strongman image of "protecting" the North Korean people from "American imperialism."
Israel. Always a safe bet. They could nuke Israel and most of their neighbours would aplaude, publicy or privately.
The problem with that is Israel has its own nukes and would retaliate.
 
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