The Rise of Joseph Stahl - A German Stalin Collab TL
- Thread starter LucaTheDevilCat
- Start date
LackOfGravitas
Banned
Make it fair And Ask Expert Forumites to wargame scenarios ? Then roll for luck, ? Organic timeline would fit best for stuff as unusual as this.
Also for some reason i find Idea of Hitler as Stahls Bormann interesting.
LucaTheDevilCat
Banned
There's gonna be a sort of 'Scramble for the generals' along with any veterans of value from WW1, especially those among the likes of Manfred von Richtofen.
The Republic doesn't have much popular support, and the Entente will have kittens if someone tries to restore the monarchy.
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The Red Baron survives ITTL?
Interesting butterfly, even more interesting implications.
LucaTheDevilCat
Banned
Chapter 5 - Civil War
By Christmas, Germany was embroiled in a civil war. The war started in the cities but expanded into the countryside as anarchy and chaos gripped the nation. Stahl, against the strong wishes of Adolf Hitler, formed a sort of coalition with other far right parties, realising that the Nazis needed help more than ever. Hitler and Stahl reached a sort of compromise when he promised the coalition would be broken and the various parties absorbed when the war was over.
Two key elements would dictate the outcome of the war: Propaganda and Expertise. With Germany's military and economy heavily restricted by the treaty of Versailles, the Weimar government fell apart with it's generals and politicians defecting to a faction or fleeing the country all together. The Nazis and Communists would become the main players in this new war and had militias exceeding well beyond the permitted 100,000 troops, both sides managed to work around this treaty. Internationally, reactions were mixed, the Entente declared the Rhineland a neutral zone and took advantage of the Ruhr, something they would come to regret. The Weimar Republic was pronounced dead when President Hindenburg died from the stress of the country going into disarray on December 3 1923.
Propaganda was clearly in the Nazi favour, Stahl's self portrayal as a strong and capable leader inspired many Germans to side with him, much to the annoyance of Hitler who was losing credit within the party. A 'Provisional Government' was set up in Munich in January 1924, throughout the city, massive portraits of Stahl and to a lesser extent, Hitler and other Nazi leaders were everywhere, on every wall and street corner. Swastikas hung from flag poles and banners covered windows in a display of ideological fanaticism. Stahl, Hitler and Goebbels held a massive rally, calling for "All red blooded Germans to come to the aid of the fatherland to protect it from the rampaging Jewish Bolsheviks coming for our women and children!". Thousands of veterans were swayed from this quote and alone, they weren't the first nor were they certainly the last.
As the original government was swept away, high ranking military officers found themselves in a vacuum, on one side was the KPD, the main side of the Communist Front which was largely disorganised and couldn't find a common ground other than defeating the Nazis, like the White Army in Russia before. On the other was the NSDAP, united under the leadership of Joseph Stahl, a ruthless but capable leader with his sidekicks: A jealous Hitler, a charismatic Goebbels and experienced Goering among others. Manfred von Richtofen was invited to dine with the Nazi leadership in February, although he was suffering from injuries and PTSD from his near death incident at the hand of a Canadian pilot in the war, after some convincing, Manfred agreed to join the Nazis who were secretly building up an air force.
As the masses, officers, veterans flocked to the right, the communists with only a handful of workers were falling apart at the seams, although help from the USSR was significant. The Communists began to fracture over the year. The last communist strongholds fell on August 13th. Massive rallies and celebrations were held in all German towns and cities. Joseph Stahl delivered a thundering speech, announcing the Third Reich and his promise to restore Germany's greatness forever.
A Nazi rally following the German Civil War
Manfred von Richtofen siding with the Nazis would play a key role on the propaganda and military side of the war
Stahl's personality cult would grow in the aftermath of the civil war
By Christmas, Germany was embroiled in a civil war. The war started in the cities but expanded into the countryside as anarchy and chaos gripped the nation. Stahl, against the strong wishes of Adolf Hitler, formed a sort of coalition with other far right parties, realising that the Nazis needed help more than ever. Hitler and Stahl reached a sort of compromise when he promised the coalition would be broken and the various parties absorbed when the war was over.
Two key elements would dictate the outcome of the war: Propaganda and Expertise. With Germany's military and economy heavily restricted by the treaty of Versailles, the Weimar government fell apart with it's generals and politicians defecting to a faction or fleeing the country all together. The Nazis and Communists would become the main players in this new war and had militias exceeding well beyond the permitted 100,000 troops, both sides managed to work around this treaty. Internationally, reactions were mixed, the Entente declared the Rhineland a neutral zone and took advantage of the Ruhr, something they would come to regret. The Weimar Republic was pronounced dead when President Hindenburg died from the stress of the country going into disarray on December 3 1923.
Propaganda was clearly in the Nazi favour, Stahl's self portrayal as a strong and capable leader inspired many Germans to side with him, much to the annoyance of Hitler who was losing credit within the party. A 'Provisional Government' was set up in Munich in January 1924, throughout the city, massive portraits of Stahl and to a lesser extent, Hitler and other Nazi leaders were everywhere, on every wall and street corner. Swastikas hung from flag poles and banners covered windows in a display of ideological fanaticism. Stahl, Hitler and Goebbels held a massive rally, calling for "All red blooded Germans to come to the aid of the fatherland to protect it from the rampaging Jewish Bolsheviks coming for our women and children!". Thousands of veterans were swayed from this quote and alone, they weren't the first nor were they certainly the last.
As the original government was swept away, high ranking military officers found themselves in a vacuum, on one side was the KPD, the main side of the Communist Front which was largely disorganised and couldn't find a common ground other than defeating the Nazis, like the White Army in Russia before. On the other was the NSDAP, united under the leadership of Joseph Stahl, a ruthless but capable leader with his sidekicks: A jealous Hitler, a charismatic Goebbels and experienced Goering among others. Manfred von Richtofen was invited to dine with the Nazi leadership in February, although he was suffering from injuries and PTSD from his near death incident at the hand of a Canadian pilot in the war, after some convincing, Manfred agreed to join the Nazis who were secretly building up an air force.
As the masses, officers, veterans flocked to the right, the communists with only a handful of workers were falling apart at the seams, although help from the USSR was significant. The Communists began to fracture over the year. The last communist strongholds fell on August 13th. Massive rallies and celebrations were held in all German towns and cities. Joseph Stahl delivered a thundering speech, announcing the Third Reich and his promise to restore Germany's greatness forever.
A Nazi rally following the German Civil War
Manfred von Richtofen siding with the Nazis would play a key role on the propaganda and military side of the war
Stahl's personality cult would grow in the aftermath of the civil war
Why do I feel as though all forms of media featuring Hitler and Stahl will soon be devoid of the former?
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LucaTheDevilCat
Banned
Any amnesty between the two will at least briefly disappear after the civil war. Don't know what the thirties will bring.
LucaTheDevilCat
Banned
Political purges, maybe but military purges will ruin Nazi Germany's chances of success, their experienced generals is one of the reasons of why they were so successful early in the war.
I think that Stahl(in) will at least purge KDP and communist sympathizers from the country before anything else. No military purges methinks: Stahl(in) and Hitler won the civil war with the help of the military, and unlike the Russian Civil War, Stahl(in) didn't need to fight against it.
So Stahl is the dominant figure in the Nazi Party. Hitler would likely be 'disappeared' if he tried anything. Himmler too, since he was loyal to Hitler. It would be ironic if Rohm survives to be a Beria-like figure.
Unlike Hitler, Stahl would probably be more patient with military rearmament, focusing on rebuilding the country from the scars of WWI and funding fascist movements in other nations. How are relations with Mussolini?
Unlike Hitler, Stahl would probably be more patient with military rearmament, focusing on rebuilding the country from the scars of WWI and funding fascist movements in other nations. How are relations with Mussolini?
LucaTheDevilCat
Banned
The Nazis and Soviets hated religion in OTL. Not to mention that Stahl is probably going to make up his own history to cover embarrassing moments.