The Death of Russia - TL
- Thread starter Sorairo
- Start date
What's happening with Norilsk? They're cut off from the world except by air for 9 months of the year and the other three months they only have the additional option of a port 40 miles away.
You mean crusader republic
Also, how do the two factions (communist and fascist) style themselves in terms of what they call their state (Russian soviet republic, Russian state etc)
That ending is also making me think that North Korea might try to pull something in Vladivostok and that Aksyuchit will be celebrated in a saved us from invaders kind of way by the people of the far eastern republic.
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January 1995 Map
A bit of guesswork for this one (did the Fascist take the Arctic Sea coast in Komi's north?) in addition to labeling the rest of Siberia as de-facto anarchy. I know Komi and the Far East aren't declaring themselves the legitimate Russian government (at least not right now who knows), but the word is a nice catch-all term for ethnic Russian/majority Russian states here.
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I'm not the only one terrified of asking what life in the hell under the Stalingrad Government would look like with that in mind.
I'm surprised that they let Gorby live long enough to be exchanged. I figured the next we'd here about him was either getting a show trial on live TV or found in a mass grave somewhere.
Can't really say anything more about the beginning of the end that hasn't been said already, but the only forms of government we're missing at this point are Romanov restorationists (Anton Bakov's gotta be doing something to try and bring the Romanovs back somehow IMO), the Russian mafia forming a bandit state that goes semi-legit in Siberia, and a FSB securocracy (if Putin's not in Kaliningrad or in European Russia, he's probably out in Siberia for one reason or another, perhaps in the general area of Irkutsk).
All I'm saying is that once the former NSF start tossing nukes at one another, all bets are off and the unity both sides have probably give way to ideological in-fighting.
Can't really say anything more about the beginning of the end that hasn't been said already, but the only forms of government we're missing at this point are Romanov restorationists (Anton Bakov's gotta be doing something to try and bring the Romanovs back somehow IMO), the Russian mafia forming a bandit state that goes semi-legit in Siberia, and a FSB securocracy (if Putin's not in Kaliningrad or in European Russia, he's probably out in Siberia for one reason or another, perhaps in the general area of Irkutsk).
All I'm saying is that once the former NSF start tossing nukes at one another, all bets are off and the unity both sides have probably give way to ideological in-fighting.
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I’m surprised at the PRC’s relative inaction. By my count their only involvement in the former Soviet Union is propping up Kazakhstan (by giving them functional nukes, so you can hardly say they’re fully in China’s pocket), and playing games in Tuva. Would’ve expected them to be the first one trying to secure the Far East (by which I mean preventing further anarchy from spilling into Northeast China, not any silly thought of conquest in the Russian Far East).
Oh, and Mongolia seemingly drinking all the kool aid. They can’t possibly think they can escape Beijing’s orbit now that the Russians have evaporated. Like, the Far Eastern Republic has sea access, so maybe they can balance out the Americans and the Chinese, but Mongolia?
I mean, personally i’m all for Mongolia also controlling Inner Mongolia. But that’s because as someone ethnically chinese the thought of Chinese-majority Mongolia is hilarious.
The Caucasus and Urals are gonna be bloody. Probably some expectation of the finest border gore to exist too.
Oh, and Mongolia seemingly drinking all the kool aid. They can’t possibly think they can escape Beijing’s orbit now that the Russians have evaporated. Like, the Far Eastern Republic has sea access, so maybe they can balance out the Americans and the Chinese, but Mongolia?
I mean, personally i’m all for Mongolia also controlling Inner Mongolia. But that’s because as someone ethnically chinese the thought of Chinese-majority Mongolia is hilarious.
The Caucasus and Urals are gonna be bloody. Probably some expectation of the finest border gore to exist too.
Fun fact: Going by IOTL statistics, Tuva murder rate would've been sky high, given Colombia had the highest murder rate of 1994 at 71.0 while South Africa was only at a solid 70.
LukasTheSeven
Banned
The problem is that everything in this TL looks like a fantasy (typical "let's restore historical justice and punish the bad guys!"), and not an attempt at realism. Already the first chapter looks like a joke.
Nothing. As soon as the Russians run out in the Caucasus, its endless peoples will inevitably and very quickly remember all historical (real or imagined) grievances against each other and a total massacre will begin in the style of Yugoslavia (or Africa). And this is not to mention the Islamists. Toxic nationalism is not conducive to stability.
There are too many of them to hope to do anything without a direct full-scale military invasion.
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Concerning nuclear weapons, could the arms dealer in the form of shady dealings get the nuclear weapons?
How about the Mir and Soyuz? How long will the Russian space program become the major casualty of the Second Russian Civil War and how destabilizing situation will affect the Russian position in the UNSC?
I honestly echo this sentiment. As someone who has studied the USSR in depth there's honestly a disturbing amount of blackwashing regarding both Russia and the USSR here. While it's a unique TL idea, the way it's portrayed at least to me seems kinda Russophobic.
LukasTheSeven
Banned
At the time of the collapse, the USSR had 40 thousand (as I heard) warheads. I think it's will be inevitable.
But they will first have to somehow establish lines of communication with those who have nuclear warheads, because the old ones will be tested for durability in the conditions of chaos.
LukasTheSeven
Banned
Much of what is happening in this TL is an attempt to superimpose the events of today (and inflate them to the point of absurdity) on the past. I won't say how naive the "mad hitler destroys everything" idea is, which was then given to Makashov. Even if the Supreme Soviet had somehow managed to win in Moscow, Yeltsin was the face of a collective of too many influential people who would not allow their place to be taken away.
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These are foreign volunteers who want to serve in the armed forces, not people who are sending their families there.
Nukes will be discussed in the next chapter, who has them and who doesn't.
The government has essentially openly committed genocidal actions in Dagestan and Chechnya, and is requisitioning grain Stalinist style. If you are an ethnic minority, you really do not want to be in either Fascist or Communist Russia.
Thank you, this is very interesting and I'll write with this in mind and perhaps make edits.
I've never played TNO, or any HOI. I haven't played a video game in four years. My apologies that I couldn't make the events seem more plausible.
The Communists are 'The Soviet Republic of Russia' while the Fascists are the 'Republic of Russia'.
The PRC is trying to revive their image in the West and don't want to do anything blatantly imperialist. Their plan is simply to influence the pieces from whats left to become their puppets and perhaps incorporate them through economic necessity. Unfortunately, someone in Pyongyang is about to blow that plan up in their face.
I don't believe in 'historical justice' given that it was used by local paramilitaries here to justify why they were bombing children, but other people do and would be a motivating factor for them. I am not writing this TL out of vindictiveness, but because I had some ideas in my head that interested me and I wanted to put them to some form of life.
How has he 'destroyed everything'? The NSF's platform in 1993 was to stop the pullout of troops from the Baltics, the showdown over Sevastapol happened in 1994, and Rutskoy himself loudly supported the referendum, the invasion of Chechnya happened with many of the same war crimes as shown which I thought would be worse given you no longer have 'democrat' Yeltsin in charge but literal Fascists and Stalinists.
I don't regard my interpretation of the USSR as distant from the mainstream views. I feel it would have little difference from Timothy Synder, for example. It would seem fair to ask the Congolese what they thought of Leopold's empire, so I see no maltreatment in asking East Europe what they thought of the Communist era, which seems clear given the electoral results of the Communist parties since.
The hill I will die on is that the USSR was an evil, vicious, colonial empire and that it's fall IOTL was one of the greatest geopolitical and humanitarian triumphs in human history. From my Polish friends at work who were told in school about how the USSR 'saved Poland from the Nazis' on September 17th 1939, my Cuban friend whose mother was imprisoned for listening to Guns N Roses and Queen and had to escape to America on a raft through shark infested waters to my friends in Hong Kong who have seen the city they grew up in die, not to mention the years of my own life I've spent reading about this state's ethnic cleansing of its citizens, anti-semitism and unabashed imperialism. I have a highly negative view of Communism and a stoic view of Communists since I flirted with far-leftism as a pre-teen like 99% of other pre-teens. My view on Communism is essentially identical to Stephen Kotkin and I wouldn't call Stephen Kotkin an extremist of any description.
When it comes to 'Russophobia', Russians have had roughly four or five free elections in their history, invariably choosing the most liberal candidate each time. This seems to pretty conclusively tell me that stereotypes of Russians loving dictatorship in their bones are wrong. Indeed, this TL will result in many different ideologies appearing in Russia, which would imply Russians are not predisposed to one form of government. At the same time, these events are occurring after GDP has collapsed by 50% - this will test the foundations of democracy.
EDIT: And given that I financially support Russian opposition journalists, I evidently don't think Russia is a lost cause or devoid of people who deserve protection.
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So is the economy collapsing? Its not like having a major state collapse helps the world economy especially when no one has any idea what is going on. That is before the whole wave of refugees that will probably occur or how Eastern Europe is acting as if the US/Europe would like them acting so aggressive so as to support an ethnic conflict which might include ethnic cleansing.
Its still kinda weird as even in our timeline most foreign volunters had some amount of connection to the land and people. They have not had a presence there for decades and so leaving their homes to play conquest just seems weird as hell. At most I can see them supporting the already existing anti-Russian movements.
As for any bias your explanation does not exactly help in that regard.
Yes, I think Communism is a bad form of government and that it leads to poverty and state repression. No, I don't think this is an unfair, unreasonable or rare point of view any more than Fascism leading to poverty, repression and murder is an unfair, unreasonable, or rare point of view.