Map Thread XXII

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What if Rome survived?

After winning the Battle of Adrianople, the Roman Empire subjugates the Goths and later successfully uses them as soldiers against other invading peoples.

Here's a video detailing the history since:


And here's a tour of the Roman world in 2023:

Europa is the heart of the empire; all business of note is conducted there. Most in Europe speak one dialect of Latin or another, everyone’s Christian, and all adults can vote for their politicians depending on their class. Despite recent changes, Europa is still a deeply unequal place, with the plebeian industrialists and tech entrepreneurs holding most of the wealth, sharing power with the last remnants of the old patrician aristocracy above a large proletariat body increasingly losing its little wealth. Among the aging Europeans is a large population of immigrants from elsewhere, chiefly Asia.

Asia is an immense continent, but Romans kinda have difficulty telling the difference between everybody. Half of the Arab World is ruled directly from Rome, but the other half is split between a series of puppet monarchies. Christianity is the majority religion among Arabs, with Islam pressed by the crusades into the Arabian Peninsula and Persia. Persia, India, Russia, and China are all immense puppet states run by loyal monarchies intermarried with the imperial dynasty from Rome. Though they’re poor, increasingly, industrial products are produced in these places instead of Europe; that means Europe is losing its leverage. Some in these monarchies plan for a future revolution against Rome, in secret. Many cities along the coast of Asia, however, are Roman colonies; they have majority European population and they’re armed to the teeth—that’s Rome’s leverage.

Most of Africa, on the other hand, is ruled directly by Rome but denied any rights of Roman citizenship. These vast colonies are the impoverished backwaters of the planet, where Roman governors can use extreme force to order African laborers into mines or crack down on any independence movements. There is an African middle class made up of the Christian local administrators of these colonies; they increasingly resent Roman rule and have the tools to do something about it.

Across the Ocean is Atlantis, north and south. The geography of Atlantis makes it the chief economic competitor to Rome. Plus, a large portion of the population of the many Atlantean states are the outcasts of the world system: indigenous people, freed Africans, Arabs, Indians, Slavs, non-Catholics, liberals, and so on who resent the caste system imposed by the Roman Catholic elites. With their vast farms and bustling industrial cities, the Atlanteans could pose a threat to the Empire, but for now Roman soldiers dominate the illiberal democracies and royal dictatorships that rule over them.
 
Not gonna lie... But that double headed eagle on the flag coupled with Latin namings kinda gives me Imperium of Man feelings.
 
This has to be one of my favorite maps ever of the cultural regions of America. It is so detailed and has several regional zones with the various overall cultural regions. I think most maps try to place America into a few huge and sprawling cultural regions and they usually just don’t work. Granted this one is still very based on generalizations as any map on cultural zones will be.

The map was created for a Reddit thread and the person’s username that made the map is known as Inzitarie. Here’s a link to their post

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This has to be one of my favorite maps ever of
US-cultural-regions-map-1200x784.jpg

This has to be one of my favorite maps ever of the cultural regions of America. It is so detailed and has several regional zones with the various overall cultural regions. I think most maps try to place America into a few huge and sprawling cultural regions and they usually just don’t work. Granted this one is still very based on generalizations as any map on cultural zones will be
I'd recommend giving a SOURCE, and unfortunately a better map, while it is interesting a lot of the legend is cut off
 
This has to be one of my favorite maps ever of
US-cultural-regions-map-1200x784.jpg

This has to be one of my favorite maps ever of the cultural regions of America. It is so detailed and has several regional zones with the various overall cultural regions. I think most maps try to place America into a few huge and sprawling cultural regions and they usually just don’t work. Granted this one is still very based on generalizations as any map on cultural zones will be
I feel like the person who made this map has never been to the USA.
 
Ideas for ISOT have started to go stale, but I recently managed to come up with something refreshing.

these are the first 4 worlds of ~50 years after an ISOT in which all nations of a certain population size are taken to their own virgin earth.

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This is for nations below 100,000.

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This is for nations between 100,000 and 1 million.

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This is for nations between 1-5 million.

I also did one for nations between 5-10 million, but I can‘t upload becuase it’s too large. I’ll upload it soon enough.
 
I feel like the person who made this map has never been to the USA.
They don't have to have never been to the US, but just never to have traveled in it extensively (which label applied to the vast majority of Americans as well).

I feel like no matter who makes them and how they do their analysis, many will always disagree enough with such maps to make statements like this.

What particular issues do you see with it thought?
I'll start with something I know: the "Southern Great Plains" is absurd. Cutting off Omaha from the rest of the state makes no sense. Placing Nebraska, Kansas, and eastern Colorado makes sense, but I'd include the "Northern Great Plains". Some amount of Oklahoma and northern Texas also makes sense, but including Dallas is definitely off the table. I'd also include far more of the Wyoming and Montana in the category; Casper and Billings are firmly in that category. I would probably include basically all of Wyoming except for the northwestern corner (Yellowstone, Grand Teton, and Bridger-Teton).

The geographical extent of "The Rockies" is not entirely right, and to be honest I'm not sure if the Colorado Front Range shouldn't be broken off entirely given its urban, urbane character - though the mountains are increasingly that way too, especially in Colorado. I wonder if "Deseret" should be on the map, representing the places with Mormon cultural dominance (basically all of Utah, but also southeastern Idaho and the southwestern corner of Wyoming and possibly the eastern bits of Nevada).

I'm also not sure that "Great Basin" exists as a sociological (and not just geographical) entity, but that's stretching my knowledge.
 
There's always this 1940 publication of the US Department of Agriculture (full size/source here), though obviously it's eighty years out of date and is a product of its time.
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CalBear

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This has to be one of my favorite maps ever of
US-cultural-regions-map-1200x784.jpg

This has to be one of my favorite maps ever of the cultural regions of America. It is so detailed and has several regional zones with the various overall cultural regions. I think most maps try to place America into a few huge and sprawling cultural regions and they usually just don’t work. Granted this one is still very based on generalizations as any map on cultural zones will be
DO NOT post others work without giving attribution.
 
-Bit surprising that Britain is still able to keep Ireland.
- I would had expected that Denmark would had been able to keep Iceland. And yet lost Greenland too.
- Philippine Sarawak?
whoops, i forgot about ireland ! ill go back and revise that. Pro-american sentiment and feeling neglected by Copenhagen led to a successful, American backed, independence movement. The Philippines, and many other American allies, took land from the slowly declining British empire, Washington likes to poke and prod the Brits by supporting independence movement across the globe.
What's up with Madagascar and Italy and the Congo states and also Argentina pwned Chile?
an eccentric Merina revolutionary got US backing, led an uprising against the French, and restored Madagascar's independence. his American ideals proved disingenuous
when he restored the Merina Kingdom, with himself as the regent.
The Kingdom of Italy never faced the post-WW1 woes it did OTL, just continued to exist as a mediocre third-rate power pretending to be a great power. A republican movement overthrew the monarchy with US and German support in the 60's. Autonomous, limited monarchies continue to exist in Naples, Lombardy, and Venetia.
Independence movements across the Congo led to an international conference between Belgium, Britain, America, and France to determine the colonies future. Britain got concessions to secure their economic interests, while Congo and Kasai won their independence under American stewardship (with the implication Washington would restrain these independence movements from spreading further). Recently the two countries have moved towards Japan over America. Simaler conferences would occur over the Portuguese colonies.
Argentina continued to be a great power throughout the 20's and 30's as Britain's sidekick in South America. International fears over British hegemony in Latin America led to the escalation of the Chaco War into a South American Great War, with America-Brazil-Bolivia fighting Britain-Argentina-Paraguay. Chile was pressured by Washington into joining the war to open up a new front. Argentina won a negotiated victory and continued to grow over the decades.
Who are the members of SocIntern?
I see Mexico, Belieze, Guatemala, and (East?) El Salvador, Peru and Bolivia in Americas. West Africa, Ethiopia?, and...??? in Africa. Norway and two micro-states in Europe. India and Eastern Indonesia in Asia, right? Who am I missing?
*Zapatistas Mexico, (north)Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Peru, Bolivia, West Africa, Ethiopia (democratic socialists, American buddies), Azania, Norway, Belgium, Bosnia (both moderate democratic socialists), India, Burma, and East Indonesia.
Mexico and its allies, as well as East Indonesia, are the only countries we'd recognize as traditional communists. The rest are either moderates or democratic socialists. There wasn't a red scare ITTL so socialism/communism is a lot more diverse and common.
Russia was first to the Moon?!
after thinking it through more this is something ill have to change, since Von Braun wouldnt be in Russia, but anyways, an American-German friendship grows increasingly hostile with the Colonial, Imperialist Entente (ignore the German hypocricy here) throughout the 20's and 30's. Without the fear of communism, this cold war isnt world threatening or anything, but its still a morally driven conflict which America is committed to winning. A space race would most likely start with Germany launching the first sattelite (not Russia), and would end with a British flag on the Moon.

What goes on with the three Israels?
Britian created a Jewish homeland in Arish in 1903, using it to to push the Ottoman border further North. After Egypt won their independance in the 80's, Israel anexxed Sinai. Before Israel secured Ottoman Palestine, another zionist organization set up an Israel in British East Africa, believing Arish to be an impractical homeland. These settlers wound up in conflict with the Nandi, other native Africans, and other English settlers. After only 6 years the East African project was abandoned, though the region still has a large Jewish minority. Russia secured an Armenian and Assyrian mandate in 1910 after international condemnation of the Ottomans genocide. Inspired by the ancient Kingdom of Adiabene, a Jewish homeland was started but never went anywhere since most Zionists preffered the other 2.
where is the 1910 Israel supposed to be? Can't for the life of me tell...
Assyria

sorry about all the text, heres a map with all these retcons and explanations. i apreciate all the questions :3
j0Q16X0.png

(edited for antarctica )
 
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Progress made on my 1980s Retrofuturist Map, added a lot of detail and flavor.

The DDR comes from my "Ostalgie" game playthrough as the same.

I am happy with how things are shaping up. I think I'm capturing a lot of the trends, hopes, and fears of the 1980s.

1980s Punk.png
 
whoops, i forgot about ireland ! ill go back and revise that. Pro-american sentiment and feeling neglected by Copenhagen led to a successful, American backed, independence movement. The Philippines, and many other American allies, took land from the slowly declining British empire, Washington likes to poke and prod the Brits by supporting independence movement across the globe.

an eccentric Merina revolutionary got US backing, led an uprising against the French, and restored Madagascar's independence. his American ideals proved disingenuous
when he restored the Merina Kingdom, with himself as the regent.
The Kingdom of Italy never faced the post-WW1 woes it did OTL, just continued to exist as a mediocre third-rate power pretending to be a great power. A republican movement overthrew the monarchy with US and German support in the 60's. Autonomous, limited monarchies continue to exist in Naples, Lombardy, and Venetia.
Independence movements across the Congo led to an international conference between Belgium, Britain, America, and France to determine the colonies future. Britain got concessions to secure their economic interests, while Congo and Kasai won their independence under American stewardship (with the implication Washington would restrain these independence movements from spreading further). Recently the two countries have moved towards Japan over America. Simaler conferences would occur over the Portuguese colonies.
Argentina continued to be a great power throughout the 20's and 30's as Britain's sidekick in South America. International fears over British hegemony in Latin America led to the escalation of the Chaco War into a South American Great War, with America-Brazil-Bolivia fighting Britain-Argentina-Paraguay. Chile was pressured by Washington into joining the war to open up a new front. Argentina won a negotiated victory and continued to grow over the decades.

*Zapatistas Mexico, (north)Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Peru, Bolivia, West Africa, Ethiopia (democratic socialists, American buddies), Azania, Norway, Belgium, Bosnia (both moderate democratic socialists), India, Burma, and East Indonesia.
Mexico and its allies, as well as East Indonesia, are the only countries we'd recognize as traditional communists. The rest are either moderates or democratic socialists. There wasn't a red scare ITTL so socialism/communism is a lot more diverse and common.

after thinking it through more this is something ill have to change, since Von Braun wouldnt be in Russia, but anyways, an American-German friendship grows increasingly hostile with the Colonial, Imperialist Entente (ignore the German hypocricy here) throughout the 20's and 30's. Without the fear of communism, this cold war isnt world threatening or anything, but its still a morally driven conflict which America is committed to winning. A space race would most likely start with Germany launching the first sattelite (not Russia), and would end with a British flag on the Moon.


Britian created a Jewish homeland in Arish in 1903, using it to to push the Ottoman border further North. After Egypt won their independance in the 80's, Israel anexxed Sinai. Before Israel secured Ottoman Palestine, another zionist organization set up an Israel in British East Africa, believing Arish to be an impractical homeland. These settlers wound up in conflict with the Nandi, other native Africans, and other English settlers. After only 6 years the East African project was abandoned, though the region still has a large Jewish minority. Russia secured an Armenian and Assyrian mandate in 1910 after international condemnation of the Ottomans genocide. Inspired by the ancient Kingdom of Adiabene, a Jewish homeland was started but never went anywhere since most Zionists preffered the other 2.

Assyria

sorry about all the text, heres a map with all these retcons and explanations. i apreciate all the questions :3
j0Q16X0.png

(edited for antarctica )
In the SocIntern mini-map you've combined Kamerun and some other country into one state, jlyk if that is an error that its there
 
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