I don't know about the other ones, but Luxembourg is probably under the same dynasty as OTL, since that's who they were placed under after OTL ViennaWho rules the Rhine, Luxembourg and the Saar?
I don't know about the other ones, but Luxembourg is probably under the same dynasty as OTL, since that's who they were placed under after OTL ViennaWho rules the Rhine, Luxembourg and the Saar?
My guess is that the Turks sided with Napoleon and got shit on.How is there an Aromanian state?
I'm not sure I understand some of these land transfers. The CoV, for all intents and purposes, was equalizing & rounding off the European polities through population (or more commonly referred to as souls in more primary sources) transfers -- ie, territorial swaps. That being said, a lot of the borders that came out from otl were indicative of the circumstances present at the time and the mood of the Congress. Ofc there are power politics involved, but there really was an earnest attempt at manufacturing a stable post-war Europe.
As someone who doesn't know nearly as much about Vienna I'm not sure if these solutions would be any good, but regarding both the Pomerania-Frisia-Lauenburg and the Tirol for Wuerzburg trades, given the state of the map in modern day, I feel like the simplest solution could be that they simply don't happen at all in TTL. So, like, East Frisia stays Prussian, Saxe-Lauenburg remains Independent, and Swedish Pomerania stays Danish (which I think also makes its later independence more plausible). And meanwhile, Würzburg is returned to the Habsburgs in exchange for Bavaria getting to keep Tirol and Vorarlberg, since they own it in 2024 anyway. Not sure how the French border could be strengthened in any other way than giving Rhineland to Prussia though, unfortunately.I'm not sure I understand some of these land transfers. The CoV, for all intents and purposes, was equalizing & rounding off the European polities through population (or more commonly referred to as souls in more primary sources) transfers -- ie, territorial swaps. That being said, a lot of the borders that came out from otl were indicative of the circumstances present at the time and the mood of the Congress. Ofc there are power politics involved, but there really was an earnest attempt at manufacturing a stable post-war Europe.
To better frame what I said earlier, let me point out Hanoverian East Frisia: the area before Tilsit had been a Prussian possession, and after the wars of liberation East Frisia had returned to Prussian administration. Prussia was obligated to help Hanover enlarge through the Reichenbach treaty but how exactly that would unfold was anyone's guess at the time. Subsequently, Denmark was dejure, the new owner of former Swedish Pomerania through the Treaty of Kiel; this was seen as compensation for the loss of Norway. To not go on a tangent on minute details of the events that played out, Prussia wanted former Swedish Pomerania, Britain wanted Hanover to receive East Frisia, Denmark wanted a continuous state (not practical with a non-bordering territory like Pomerania). It was agreed that Prussia would transfer East Frisia for Saxe-Lauenburg (which was a part of Hanover since 1689). Prussia would then immediately trade Saxe-Lauenburg for Swedish Pomerania. As far as the map you made shows, former Swedish Pomerania is not part of Prussia, which shatters the potential of this territorial swap, making it not possible--yet Hanover owns East Frisia and Denmark Saxe-Lauenburg respectfully still.
Looking at another area of questionability: Prussian Franconia. While the areas of Bayreuth & Ansbach had been taken over by the main-line Hohenzollerns in Prussia from 1792 til 1805, the area had been recognized as Bavarian since. Not that Prussia couldn't try to reclaim these areas, but Bavaria needs to be compensated for the loss of souls, which doesn't seem to have happened on your map. Furthermore, Wurzburg being included doesn't make much sense. Aside from the fact that the area was Catholic, it was an extension of dynastical Habsburg territory. The Treaty of Ried, which had recognized Bavaria's Napoleonic frontiers was something the Austrians, post-war, wanted to revise. So they traded Würzburg for Tyrol & Vorarlberg. Why this is Prussian now I do not know.
I'm not sure what the lore is on the Rhine, but I do know Britain is crying as a completely untenable polity in the Saar, a Frankenstein kingdom in the Rhine and a shafted Bavaria are the "watchmen" of Germany against any future French incursion.
I could talk about other stuff on the map but I think my post is already getting too long and I might be misreading your intent with your TL, so I apologize if I'm coming off too abrupt; I've read too many Congress of Vienna books and papers that I've become a tad too devoted to the topic.
The OP mentioned that the modern borders of Austria-Bohemia are the result of a warAnd meanwhile, Würzburg is returned to the Habsburgs in exchange for Bavaria getting to keep Tirol and Vorarlberg, since they own it in 2024 anyway.
Fair enough (although that would still technically be true here, since Austria originally lost Tirol to Bavaria because they lost a war – the War of the Fifth Coalition)The OP mentioned that the modern borders of Austria-Bohemia are the result of a war
Why was the Papal States split into several states?
Who rules the Rhine, Luxembourg and the Saar?
Why is Lombardy not Austrian?
I don't know about the other ones, but Luxembourg is probably under the same dynasty as OTL, since that's who they were placed under after OTL Vienna
What happened to the Ottomans?
Did the Ottomans side with Napoleon (or whoever rules France)? What happened to their European holdings?
I take it by the title of the Serbian monarch that the first revolt succeeded? Even though Miloš was Vožd too somehow I feel this is being used to imply Karađorđe.
My guess is that the Turks sided with Napoleon and got shit on.
It also fits with the first Serbian revolt succeeding and Serbia being awarded all this land.
With the signing of Ičko's Peace in 1807, the Serbs succeeded in their goals and won on their terms, Whilst its veterans licked their wounds, the Russians declared war on the Ottomans, and in the midst of it, Sultan Selim III is deposed, replaced by his cousin Mustafa IV. Selim is executed, but Mustafa's brother Mahmud fled Topkapı Palace to avoid certain death. With the support of the Janissaries, Mustafa's reign from 1807 to 1813 proved disastrous for Ottoman rule in Rumelia. His conservative view on Serbia's success would lead to a reign of terror in the region, due to his belief that pro-Christian reforms almost destroyed Imperial authority. All of this would culminate in the beginning of the Aromanian Uprising and the Greek Revolution in late 1812, and the Bulgarian Uprising, the Peonian Uprising and the Rumanian Revolution in early 1813. The Revolution would peak with the Albanian Revolt and Bosniak Insurrection in late 1814 and Serbia officially joining in (referred to as the Second Serbian Uprising in Serbian historiography), as the entire Balkan went up in the flames of large-scale revolution against the Ottomans.
Meanwhile, as the Revolution fired up, Alemdar Mustafa Pasha, in allegiance with Mahmud, finally strike Topkapı Palace and depose Mustafa IV, as Mahmud II takes power in early 1813. The state the subcontinent had be left in would prompt Mahmud to cut his losses, recognizing the independence of all the nation states during the Congress of Vienna, as he turned the Empire's interests away from Europe. The Revolutionary States, sending their delegates to Vienna as part of the "Hem Bloc," would find their comradery fractured as the Four Great Powers divided them among themselves.
How is there an Aromanian state?
There was a large somewhat self governing Aromanian community in northeastern Epirus around Moscopole at the time.
- Is the Hcm Block similar to the German Confederation?
- Why did Prussia annex Franconia?
- Who rules Lombardy, Massa, Romagna and Ancona?
- What happened to Pontecorvo that caused it to not be around in 2024?
@LeinadB93 ! amazing map! Can't wait for more info!
Interesting Map especially when comparing with the 2024 Total map, UE already exists in 1815, Hannover is split into two parts and isn’t in the UE and Spain still exists.
An explanation/post on the Act of Union which created the UE will be interesting aka why is Ireland and BNA but not Hannover a part of the Union.
Three other questions have come to mind following another review of the 2024 map,
1) the Driving side map doesn’t seem to match up to countries boarders, mostly noticeably in Africa and Asia does that mean some countries have both types of road systems?
2) Given the UE and Serbia (and by extension the Greater Asia Prosperity sphere) border across the Bering strait is there and tunnels and bridges in that area?
3)In addition are there any tunnels under Irish Sea or the English Channel?
Who became the monarch of the Rhineland and Bulgaria respectively?
I'm not sure I understand some of these land transfers. The CoV, for all intents and purposes, was equalizing & rounding off the European polities through population (or more commonly referred to as souls in more primary sources) transfers -- ie, territorial swaps. That being said, a lot of the borders that came out from otl were indicative of the circumstances present at the time and the mood of the Congress. Ofc there are power politics involved, but there really was an earnest attempt at manufacturing a stable post-war Europe.
To better frame what I said earlier, let me point out Hanoverian East Frisia: the area before Tilsit had been a Prussian possession, and after the wars of liberation East Frisia had returned to Prussian administration. Prussia was obligated to help Hanover enlarge through the Reichenbach treaty but how exactly that would unfold was anyone's guess at the time. Subsequently, Denmark was dejure, the new owner of former Swedish Pomerania through the Treaty of Kiel; this was seen as compensation for the loss of Norway. To not go on a tangent on minute details of the events that played out, Prussia wanted former Swedish Pomerania, Britain wanted Hanover to receive East Frisia, Denmark wanted a continuous state (not practical with a non-bordering territory like Pomerania). It was agreed that Prussia would transfer East Frisia for Saxe-Lauenburg (which was a part of Hanover since 1689). Prussia would then immediately trade Saxe-Lauenburg for Swedish Pomerania. As far as the map you made shows, former Swedish Pomerania is not part of Prussia, which shatters the potential of this territorial swap, making it not possible--yet Hanover owns East Frisia and Denmark Saxe-Lauenburg respectfully still.
Looking at another area of questionability: Prussian Franconia. While the areas of Bayreuth & Ansbach had been taken over by the main-line Hohenzollerns in Prussia from 1792 til 1805, the area had been recognized as Bavarian since. Not that Prussia couldn't try to reclaim these areas, but Bavaria needs to be compensated for the loss of souls, which doesn't seem to have happened on your map. Furthermore, Wurzburg being included doesn't make much sense. Aside from the fact that the area was Catholic, it was an extension of dynastical Habsburg territory. The Treaty of Ried, which had recognized Bavaria's Napoleonic frontiers was something the Austrians, post-war, wanted to revise. So they traded Würzburg for Tyrol & Vorarlberg. Why this is Prussian now I do not know.
I'm not sure what the lore is on the Rhine, but I do know Britain is crying as a completely untenable polity in the Saar, a Frankenstein kingdom in the Rhine and a shafted Bavaria are the "watchmen" of Germany against any future French incursion.
I could talk about other stuff on the map but I think my post is already getting too long and I might be misreading your intent with your TL, so I apologize if I'm coming off too abrupt; I've read too many Congress of Vienna books and papers that I've become a tad too devoted to the topic.
As someone who doesn't know nearly as much about Vienna I'm not sure if these solutions would be any good, but regarding both the Pomerania-Frisia-Lauenburg and the Tirol for Wuerzburg trades, given the state of the map in modern day, I feel like the simplest solution could be that they simply don't happen at all in TTL. So, like, East Frisia stays Prussian, Saxe-Lauenburg remains Independent, and Swedish Pomerania stays Danish (which I think also makes its later independence more plausible). And meanwhile, Würzburg is returned to the Habsburgs in exchange for Bavaria getting to keep Tirol and Vorarlberg, since they own it in 2024 anyway. Not sure how the French border could be strengthened in any other way than giving Rhineland to Prussia though, unfortunately.
@LeinadB93 what do you think?
The OP mentioned that the modern borders of Austria-Bohemia are the result of a war
Fair enough (although that would still technically be true here, since Austria originally lost Tirol to Bavaria because they lost a war – the War of the Fifth Coalition)
Thanks
Np. And very interesting!A few points:
As I say I completely appreciate your input, but something to take away is that ITTL, Vienna is regarded as a bit of a failure as the 19th century sees several continent wide wars in Europe, that sets the scene for the disasters of the early 20th century.
- There was a secondary theatre in North America between Britain and France over Louisiana - so this will play a part. In addition, Britain has, since the 1760s been influenced by Americans serving in government - and this will undoubtedly play an influence in foreign policy.
- Prussia is seen less favourable because it aligned with Napoleon, the same for Bavaria, hence while the former does gain some territory, it is not to the same extent as OTL.
- The independence of much of the Balkans from Ottoman rule is also a major player within post-war politics. With Austria getting Bosnia, this can be ofset by fewer territorial gains elsewhere. There is also the issue of dividing up the Balkan states amongst the Great Powers in terms of influence.
Did you meant that the OTL Tuscan Habsburgs received Lombardy and not the Teschens?Lombardy went to the OTL Teschen branch of the Habsburgs, Massa was restored to the House of Este, Romagna was given to Eugene Beauharnais and Ancona was given to the sixth son of Leopold II - Anton Victor.
Did you meant that the OTL Tuscan Habsburgs received Lombardy and not the Teschens?
Also, if Mass is ruled by the House of Este, does Francis IV still become Duke of Modena?
If the OTL Tuscan Habsburgs don't get Tuscany, is it still Medici?