Fear, Loathing, and Gumbo/Rumsfeldia Con't

[Tsar Nicholas The Cringe]

I think the decade would still be much more unstable than IOTL but nowhere near the level of Rumsfeldia's America.

Partially because China still likely falls under The Lesser Mao while the Soviet Union is still stronger even if McKeithen lives.

But would these events and the failures of the Nixon, Mckeithen, Bayh, and Reagan presidencies destabilize America enough to allow for a decade of tears?

South Africa could also still go full Nazi-mode in that scenario.

Would ITTL Reagan and McKeithen be so obsessed with communism as to enable a fully ultranationalist South Africa?

 

[Sir William Jol]

But would these events and the failures of the Nixon, Mckeithen, Bayh, and Reagan presidencies destabilize America enough to allow for a decade of tears?


Would ITTL Reagan and McKeithen be so obsessed with communism as to enable a fully ultranationalist South Africa?

Probably not in the sense that there's a power hungry authoritarian tyrant in the White House in the 1980s given that it's Hugh Carey, Charles Mathias, and Jimmy Carter who serve as President during the 1980s decade. There would still be other events not caused directly by Rumsfeld occurring like major deaths and the such. No disappearances however without the whole "nervous breakdowns" schtick. And without Rumsfeld the CV would remain a small offshoot of the Republican Party and there'd be no Second American Civil War (and with McCloskey as VP California never secedes under Rumsfeld).

 

[Tsar Nicholas The Cringe]

Probably not in the sense that there's a power hungry authoritarian tyrant in the White House in the 1980s given that it's Hugh Carey, Charles Mathias, and Jimmy Carter who serve as President during the 1980s decade. There would still be other events not caused directly by Rumsfeld occurring like major deaths and the such. No disappearances however without the whole "nervous breakdowns" schtick. And without Rumsfeld the CV would remain a small offshoot of the Republican Party and there'd be no Second American Civil War (and with McCloskey as VP California never secedes under Rumsfeld).

Is this a TL that avoids the Southern-Strategy-style backlash? Rumsfeld seems to be the TL where that backlash got so extreme it accelerated into full-on fascism.

Does TTL Reagan failing mean that America avoids its rightward shift?

 

[Sir William Jol]

Is this a TL that avoids the Southern-Strategy-style backlash? Rumsfeld seems to be the TL where that backlash got so extreme it accelerated into full-on fascism.

Does TTL Reagan failing mean that America avoids its rightward shift?

I think so.

 

[Tsar Nicholas The Cringe]

I recently read about The Wave, Ben Jones' 1967 experiment that showed how normal humans can join extremist groups. I found it, and the TV movie based on it, especially bone-chilling. It convinced me that Rumsfeldia or the CV, or something resembling such movements, could easily come to power under the wrong circumstances.

But I wonder how TTL Ron Jones might have felt seeing America's TTL decay into totalitarianism. OTL he was fired from his job because of antiwar protests, and Rumsfeldia's desire to crackdown on "Anti-Americanism" wouldn't have made his life easier. How traumatized would this man have been seeing young people join awful groups like the "Liberty Legions" and the CVers, effectively his very experiment proven true in a way he never wanted it too?

Jane Elliott too is a person whose fate I dread tremendously. Her whole experiment in the effects of racism and stigmatization made her somewhat unpopular in her community. TTL, her hometown, would like to be a breeding ground for CVers who would likely persecute her. How would she feel about her hometown being consumed by the hatred she tried to fight back against?

 

[Just Rebecca]

I think that the problem with controversial later chapters of Rumsfeldia is one simple thing that everyone forgets except for discussion on Rumsfeldia thread and an example in TvTropes' YMMV of this TL.

Is the fact that Drew simply handed over the pen and the key to handpicked loyal readers which caused a shift in the narrative that caused a notoriety to begin with.

Which is a shame, because Rumsfeldia actually the peak of the insanity caused by indecisiveness and dystopic events that happened in FLaG'72. And Drew making the decision to hand over the writing to handpicked loyal readers, possible because Drew is getting old, is a mistake that resulted in the downfall of the TL by itself.

 

[Tsar Nicholas The Cringe]

I think that the problem with controversial later chapters of Rumsfeldia is one simple thing that everyone forgets except for discussion on Rumsfeldia thread and an example in TvTropes' YMMV of this TL.

Is the fact that Drew simply handed over the pen and the key to handpicked loyal readers which caused a shift in the narrative that caused a notoriety to begin with.

Which is a shame, because Rumsfeldia actually the peak of the insanity caused by indecisiveness and dystopic events that happened in FLaG'72. And Drew making the decision to hand over the writing to handpicked loyal readers, possible because Drew is getting old, is a mistake that resulted in the downfall of the TL by itself.

Are you saying... it can't happen here?

 

[Beatriz]

Basically listening to readers’ demand for grimdark?

 

[Just Rebecca]

Basically listening to readers’ demand for grimdark?

There's actually an legitimate criticism over Rumsfeldia for ramping up the dystopia level to the point of being unrealistic and, according to some critics, have generally went into into unabashed praise for the left into the TL's messsge that it portrays.

In contrast, many still revere FLaG'72 because for at least sticking to decent level of dystopia and not having an bad caricature of the people involved.

 

[Captain Homicide]

I liked the part where they turned the Washington Monument into a cross.

 

[David Ritz]

So, was Agnew pivotal in setting the stage for the Decade of Tears? His slithering into the Presidency had several knockoff effects.

1. He helped Donald Rumsfeld go from being another White House flunky to the top Presidential adviser, turning him from just another SOB into a psychotically ambitious ideologue.

2. His hardcore right-wing extremism and dogmatic foreign policy effectively laid the groundwork for the TTL rightward shift of the GOP and Rumsfeldia.

3. His horrible antics and corruption eroded faith in the political system more than Watergate and contributed to the breakdown of the two-party system.

4. His rushed impeachment angered right-wing forces and may have accelerated polarization faster than it did OTL.

5. His smashing of the economy through worse inflation and a worse oil crisis contributed to even more political radicalism and further eroded the Keynes consensus.

6. Slamming the door on China led to the rise of the Lesser Mao, who further destabilized America by unleashing an epidemic of heroin.

7. His TV Show on Hughes Network and willingness to become a proud ignoramus contributed to massive political polarization.


Without Agnew coming to power, would the Decade of Tears have been avoided entirely? TTL Newt Gingrich's alternate history has Agnew not reach the Presidency, preventing Rumsfeldia, which is treated in-universe as some right-wing power fantasy.

Also the fact that Agnew 's policies lead to the early rise of Islamic jihadism through the creation of the Bayanouni Caliphate from the collapse of Syria...and the fact that he catalyzed Western European estrangement.

Yep, Agnew's brief tenure in office may look to future historians of any subsequent divergent timeline like the American Phocas (with James Gavin as its Heraclius):

Phocas - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Phocas | Emperor, Biography, History, & Facts

Phocas, Roman centurion who usurped Maurice to become Byzantine emperor (602–10). He enjoyed good relations with the pope in Rome and undertook a persecution of the miaphysite sect and of the Jews. After a revolt in Carthage, his son Heraclius had Phocas executed and became emperor in his stead.

www.britannica.com

The reign of Roman Emperor Phocas

Phocas was a mere brutal soldier—cruel, ignorant, suspicious, and reckless, and in his incapable hands the empire began to fall to pieces with alarming rapidity.

novoscriptorium.com

 

[Tsar Nicholas The Cringe]

Also the fact that Agnew 's policies lead to the early rise of Islamic jihadism through the creation of the Bayanouni Caliphate from the collapse of Syria...and the fact that he catalyzed Western European estrangement.

And Agnew's sparking of Islamic extremism also contributed to America's TTL polarization: the attack on the bicentennial fueled Christian fundamentalism, America's increasingly interventionist foreign policy, the rise of an anti-terror bureau that would eventually crackdown on civil liberties.

Seriously, many TTL historians might consider Nixon's appointment of Agnew the beginning of the end of America. Granted, Nixon's own corrupt actions could make him considered a candidate who set the stage for America's collapse (Rumsfeld started as out as an employee for Nixon). But Nixon's choice of Agnew over seasoned and experienced politicians like George Romney might be seen as a moment when America's leaders increasingly chose political expediency over the well-being of America, starting a vicious cycle of crookedness that culminated in Rumsfeld's psychotic venality and ended with Douglas Coe's monstrous apocalypticism.

Yep, Agnew's brief tenure in office may look to future historians of any subsequent divergent timeline like the American Phocas (with James Gavin as its Heraclius):

Byzantine emperors aren't my specialty, but having read about them, I find that to be an interesting comparison, especially since Gavin and Agnew did have a confrontation. What Byzantine emperors would Rummy and Coe be compared too?

I liked the part where they turned the Washington Monument into a cross.

I think it was a giant Jesus statue.

 

[David Ritz]

Byzantine emperors aren't my specialty, but having read about them, I find that to be an interesting comparison, especially since Gavin and Agnew did have a confrontation. What Byzantine emperors would Rummy and Coe be compared then?

I can't think of any anarcho-capitalist emperors.

The best analogy to the CV would probably be one of the Iconoclastic emperors of the 8th and 9th Century. The closest would probably be Leo III who brought brief stability after the Twenty Years Anarchy and defeated an Arab siege of Constantinople only to decide the revering holy images brought about the misfortunes of the empire. The resulting divide over the Iconoclastic controversy would help lead to the defection of the Italian Pope and the permanent loss of the Byzantines ' Italian territories.

 

[Captain Homicide]

I think it was a giant Jesus statue.

Even better.

 

[Tsar Nicholas The Cringe]

I can't think of any anarcho-capitalist emperors.

The best analogy to the CV would probably be one of the Iconoclastic emperors of the 8th and 9th Century. The closest would probably be Leo III who brought brief stability after the Twenty Years Anarchy and defeated an Arab siege of Constantinople only to decide the revering holy images brought about the misfortunes of the empire. The resulting divide over the Iconoclastic controversy would help lead to the defection of the Italian Pope and the permanent loss of the Byzantines ' Italian territories.

Eh...

I don't think those guys could remotely compare to the damage the Decade of Tears inflicted on America.

I think a slightly better comparison to Coe will be Scipio Aemilianus, the Roman general who ordered the desolation of Carthage. The key difference is this: Coe destroyed the cities of his OWN country and the damage he inflicted with WMDs is far worse than anything the Romans could ever do.

I think when people write about the TTL Decade of Tears, they will write about how America went from waging war on communism to waging war on its own citizens in a demented lust for absolute power.

One of the most depressing facts I learned about the 20th century is this: the number of people killed by THEIR OWN governments in that century surpasses that of people killed in interstate conflict. TTL, the rise of regimes like Rumsfeldia, the Christian States, Lesser Mao, and Magnus Malan have made that horrible statistic even worse.

One poster thinks the TTL 20th century might be called the Age of Ideology, in which those who sought to construct their utopias would conspire to create more mass death than any other regimes in history besides the Mongols.

​

 

[Sir William Jol]

So I made a very in-depth list of US presidents in the universe of FLG '72 and Rumsfeldia, including senate and house elections and important dates and events. Couldn't think of a better spot to post this than here.

List of Presidents of the United States
37. Former Vice President Richard Nixon of New York/Governor Spiro Agnew of Maryland (Republican): January 20, 1969 - January 20, 1973
Def. 1968: Vice President Hubert Humphrey of Minnesota/Senator Edmund Muskie of Maine (Democratic), Former Governor George Wallace of Alabama/Former Chief of Staff of the Air Force Curtis LeMay of California (American Independent) | 301-191-46 Electoral Vote/43.4%-42.6%-13.5% Popular Vote
As Acting President, Vice President Spiro Agnew of Maryland/Vice President Spiro Agnew of Maryland (Republican): January 20, 1973 - September 5, 1973
Vice President Spiro Agnew served as Acting President from January 20 to September 5, 1973 during the contingent presidential election.
1972 Senate Elections: 51 D (-3), 46 R (+2), 2 IND (+1), 1 C (-)
1972 House Elections: 231 D (-24), 203 R (+23), 1 IND (+1)
Former Governor John J. McKeithen of Louisiana/Acting President Spiro Agnew of Maryland (Democratic/Republican): September 5, 1973 (Died Before Assuming Office)
Def. 1972 (via contingent election): Former Governor John J. McKeithen of Louisiana/Senator Birch Bayh of Indiana (Democratic), President Richard Nixon of California/Vice President Spiro Agnew of Maryland (Republican), Governor George Wallace of Alabama/Lieutenant Governor Lester Maddox of Georgia (Independent), Senator George McGovern of South Dakota/Representative Pete McCloskey of California (Peace and Freedom) | 267-259-9-2 Electoral Vote/45.7%-45.7%-6.3%-0.6% Popular Vote/28-15-4-3 Final House Vote/50+VP-50 Senate Vote
July 31, 1973: Death of former Governor and presumptive president-elect John J. McKeithen in a plane crash in Boston, Massachusetts.
September 5, 1973: Election of former Governor John J. McKeithen posthumously as President by the House of Representatives in the contingent presidential election.
38. Acting President Spiro Agnew of Maryland/vacant, [Representative John Ashbrook of Ohio] (Republican): September 5, 1973 - November 7, 1973 (Impeached)
October 11, 1973: Rejection of Representative John Ashbrook for Vice President by Congress (59-40).
October 12, 1973: Election of retired Lieutenant General and former Ambassador to France James M. Gavin as Speaker of the House of Representatives (391-42-2).
November 7, 1973: Impeachment and conviction of President Spiro Agnew for accepting bribes in the course of his public duties, corruption in awarding public contracts, tax evasion (for not paying taxes on the bribes), accepting unlawful bribes in a Federal government office, bringing the offices of the Vice Presidency and Presidency into disrepute, making unlawful campaign contributions with the proceeds of criminal activity, conspiracy to abuse the power of his office (for issuing himself a pardon), and obstruction of justice (for issuing pardons to his co-conspirators) (312-123/312-123/310-125/309-126/291-144/244-191/219-216/219-216/90-9).
39. Speaker of the House of Representatives James M. Gavin of Massachusetts/vacant (Independent): November 7, 1973 - March 20, 1974
March 20, 1974: Confirmation of former Governor William Scranton as Vice President (98-2/397-38).
1974 Senate Elections: 59 D (+8), 38 R (-8), 2 IND (-), 1 C (-)
1974 House Elections: 261 D (+31), 204 R (-31), 1 IND (-)
39. President James M. Gavin of Massachusetts/Former Governor William Scranton of Pennsylvania (Independent/Republican): March 20, 1974 - January 20, 1977
40. Governor George Wallace of Alabama/Former Ambassador to the United Kingdom Nicholas Katzenbach of New Jersey (Democratic): January 20, 1977 - January 2, 1979
Def. 1976: Former Governor Ronald Reagan of California/Senator Charles Percy of Illinois (Republican) | 272-266 Electoral Vote/46.5%-46.4% Popular Vote
1976 Senate Elections: 48 D (-11), 48 R (+10), 3 IND (-), 1 L (+1)
1976 House Elections: 216 D (-46), 212 R (+39), 3 L (+3), 2 SW (+2), 1 AAFP (+1), 1 IND (+1)
As Acting President, Vice President Nicholas Katzenbach of New Jersey/Vice President Nicholas Katzenbach of New Jersey (Democratic): September 19, 1978 - October 12, 1978
Vice President Nicholas Katzenbach served as Acting President from September 19 to October 12, 1978 while Wallace recovered from a seizure.
October 12, 1978: Declaration of Wallace that he is fit to resume the duties of the presidency.
As Acting President, Vice President Nicholas Katzenbach of New Jersey/Vice President Nicholas Katzenbach of New Jersey (Democratic): October 13, 1978 - December 6, 1978
October 13, 1978: Declaration by the Vice President and the Cabinet that President George Wallace is still unfit to resume the duties of the presidency (10-3).
Vice President Nicholas Katzenbach served as Acting President from October 13 to December 6, 1978 while Wallace was unfit to resume the duties of the presidency.
1978 Senate Elections: 51 D (+4), 46 R (-4), 1 IND (-1), 1 L (-), 1 CVM (+1)
1978 House Elections: 225 R (+12), 201 D (-14), 4 L (+1), 2 SW (-), 2 AAFP (+1), 1 CVM (+1)
December 6, 1978: The Joint Congressional Committee Regarding the President's Fitness to Serve votes that Wallace is fit to resume office and President George Wallace is re-instated to his office (22-2).
January 2, 1979: Resignation of Vice President Nicholas Katzenbach in order to clear away for good any doubts as to his motives and intentions and those of the cabinet during the 1978 Constitutional Crisis.
40. President George Wallace of Alabama/vacant, [Governor Richard Lamm of Colorado] (Democratic): January 2, 1979 - November 11, 1979
October 8, 1979: Impeachment and acquittal of President George Wallace for violating the law by ordering the armed forces of the United States to provide direct military assistance to the Somoza regime in direct violation of pertinent Congressional Acts prohibiting this activity (251-184/53-47).
November 1, 1979: Rejection of Governor Richard Lamm for Vice President by the House of Representatives (58-40/220-215).
November 11, 1979: Confirmation of former Vice President William Scranton as Vice President by Congress (362-73/89-11).
40. President George Wallace of Alabama/Former Vice President William Scranton of Pennsylvania (Democratic/Republican): November 11, 1979 - January 19, 1981
January 19, 1981: Resignation of Vice President William Scranton so that he can be sworn in as a Federal Appellate Judge.
40. President George Wallace of Alabama/vacant (Democratic): January 19, 1981 - January 20, 1981
41. Governor Donald Rumsfeld of Illinois/Representative Jack Edwards of Alabama (Republican): January 20, 1981 - September 12, 1986
Def. 1980 (Lost Popular Vote to Carey): Governor Hugh Carey of New York/Former Governor Reubin Askew of Florida (Democratic), Former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Ron Dellums of California/Activist Ralph Nader of Connecticut (We The People), Senator Ronald Galtieri of Montana/Businessman David Koch of New York (Libertarian), various regional candidates (Christian Values Movement) | 297-227-11-1-0 Electoral Vote/40.8%-39.4%-8.1%-5.4%-3.0% Popular Vote
1980 Senate Elections: 48 D (-3), 48 R (+2), 2 L (+1), 1 CV (-), 1 IND (-)
1980 House Elections: 213 R (-12), 204 D (+3), 6 CVM (+5), 5 WTP (+5), 4 L (-), 1 SWP (-1), 1 AAFP (-1), 1 IND (-)
1982 Senate Elections: 49 R (+1), 47 D (-1), 2 L (-), 1 CV (-), 1 WTP (-)
1982 House Elections: 215 R (+2), 205 D (+1), 6 WTP (+1), 5 CVM (-1), 3 L (-1), 1 AAFP (-), 0 SWP (-1), 0 IND (-1)
1982 Gubernatorial Elections: 27 R (+8), 21 D (-7), 1 L (-1), 1AI (-)
Def. 1984 (Lost Popular Vote to McCloskey): Governor Pete McCloskey of California/Former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Ron Dellums of Washington, D.C. (Democratic/We The People), Activist Richard Viguerie of Texas/Former Navy Admiral Jeremiah Denton of Alabama (Christian Values), Former Chair of the Libertarian National Committee David Bergland of California/Former Representative to the Libertarian National Committee James A. Lewis of Connecticut (Libertarian), Reverend Jesse Jackson of Illinois/Former Mayor of San Francisco George Moscone of California (We The People) | 316-171-27-16-8 Electoral Vote/33.7%-32.6%-13.2%-12.9%-7.1% Popular Vote
1984 Senate Elections: 53 R (+4), 39 D (-8), 4 CV (+3), 3 L (+1), 1 WTP (-)
1984 House Elections: 219 R (+4), 200 D (-5), 7 CVM (+2), 6 WTP (-), 4 L (-), 1 AAFP (-), 1 IND (+1)
September 11, 1986: 1986 United States coup d'état attempt by former Secretary of Defense Alexander Haig, Lieutenant Colonel Jeb Bush, Senator Jimmy Carter, and Vice President Jack Edwards foiled by the Executive Protection Agency and the FSB thanks to intelligence from Sarah Louise Heath.
September 12, 1986: Resignation of Vice President Jack Edwards due to an alleged nervous breakdown.
41. President Donald Rumsfeld of Illinois/vacant (Republican): September 12, 1986 - January 7, 1987
1986 Senate Appointments: 70 R (+13), 21 D (-18), 7 CV (+3), 2 L (-1), 0 WTP (-1)
1986 House Elections: 284 R (+65), 90 D (-110), 54 CVM (+47), 5 WTP (-1), 2 L (-2), 1 AAFP (-), 0 IND (-1)
January 7, 1987: Confirmation of former Navy Admiral Jeremiah Denton as Vice President by Congress (55-45/225-210).
41. President Donald Rumsfeld of Illinois/Former Navy Admiral Jeremiah Denton of Alabama (Republican/Christian Values): January 7, 1988 - January 26, 1988 (Impeached)
As Acting President, Vice President Jeremiah Denton of Alabama/Vice President Jeremiah Denton of Alabama (Christian Values): January 21, 1988 - January 26, 1988
January 21, 1988: Declaration by the Vice President and the Cabinet that President Donald Rumsfeld is unfit to discharge the duties of the office of the presidency due to his nervous breakdown (10-0)
Vice President Jeremiah Denton served as Acting President from January 21 to January 26, 1988 while Rumsfeld recovered from an alleged nervous breakdown.
January 26, 1988: Impeachment and conviction of President Donald Rumsfeld under the charges that his nervous breakdown rendered him unsound to discharge the office of the presidency and that his removal represents an urgent necessity as his current condition is highly prejudicial to the public interest, for exercising negligent judgment in entrusting vital national security information in the hands of White House Chief of Staff Dick Cheney who subsequently "engaged in public acts of sedition against the United States", and ordering the use of public funds in a project adverse to the sound management of the public purse (384-51/79-21/84-16).
42. Acting President Jeremiah Denton of Alabama/vacant, [Former Governor Milton Shapp of Pennsylvania] (Christian Values, then Independent/Democratic): January 26, 1988 - January 20, 1989
June 5, 1988: Rejection of former Governor Milton Shapp for Vice President by Congress.
43. Secretary of National Intelligence Coordination and Oversight Pat Robertson of Virginia/Senator Steve Symms of Idaho (Christian Values): January 20, 1989 - June 30, 1989 (Died In Office)
Def. 1988: Senator William Winter of Mississippi/Senator William Roth of Delaware (Fusion), Senator Ronald Galtieri of Montana/Philosopher John Hospers of California (Libertarian), State Senator Bobby Rush of Illinois/Activist Charles Barron of New York (We The People), Governor George Wallace of Alabama/Former State Senator Tom Turnipseed of South Carolina (Independent), Governor Tom Foley of Washington/Former Senator Paul Sarbanes of Maryland (Democratic), Senator David R. Dwight of Massachusetts/Representative Shelby Smith of Kansas (Republican) | 250-163-52-13-8-0-0 Electoral Vote/31.2%-19.5%-18.1%-11.2%-8.7%-7.4%-0.6% Popular Vote
1988 Senate Appointments: 46 R (-24), 21 CV (+14), 20 D (-1), 7 L (+5), 2 IND (+2)
1988 House Elections: 200 CVM (+146), 71 L (+69), 50 R (-234), 49 D (-41), 16 WTP (+11), 1 IND (+1), 0 AAFP (-1)
March 11, 1989 Senate Makeup: 44 CV (+23), 23 R (-23), 20 D (-), 7 L (-), 2 IND (-)
April 15, 1989: The first battle of the Second American Civil War, a group of Mississippi National Guardsmen aligned with the Holy Battalion attempt to take over the town of Butler, Alabama. Despite being numerically superior to the Alabama Guard and Police there, they are driven back by the superior tactics of the Alabama forces. 25 Holy Battalions and 4 Alabamans lay dead.
June 1, 1989: Beginning of the Capitol Seige when all non-CV members of Congress held a peaceful protest and refused entry to all CV Senators and Representatives.
June 30, 1989: Death of President Pat Robertson in an unexplained helicopter crash aboard Marine One over Eastern Virginia.
44. Vice President Steve Symms of Idaho/vacant (Christian Values): June 30, 1989 - present
Vice President Steve Symms was not sworn in as president and claimed to be only the Acting President in place of the Eternal President Jesus Christ, but is recognized by historians as the 44th and last president of the United States.
July 4, 1989: The Obliteration of the Capitol Building by 6 Pershing Missiles fired on orders from Secretary of National Intelligence Coordination and Oversight Douglas Coe, ending the Capitol Seige and killing all non-CV members of Congress.
July 13, 1989: The beginning of the American Inquisition, or the American Purge. From July 14 to August 28, between 100,000 people are charged under various "moral crimes", sentenced to either death, or hard labor. Among the more prominent figures who fall victim to the inquisition are former Secretary of Defense William Kristol, former Vice President Jack Edwards, former Speaker of the House of Representatives Trent Lott, former Associate Justices of the Supreme Court Byron White and William Rehnquist, former Chief Justice of the United States Strom Thurmond, and former Governor of Indiana Otis Bowen.
August 31, 1989: Article V Constitutional Convention held among "moral states" for the ratification of a new Godly Constitution. The United States of America is officially renamed the Christian States of America, aka the CSA. The CSA claims the borders of the former USA, however it's borders are disputed with Canada, the Pacific Free Republic, the Alaskan Republic, the Kingdom of Hawaii, the Republic of Texas, Cuba, the United States of America in New England, the U.N. Trusteeship of former American territories, and the Bozeman Enclave Disputed Zone in the Western former United States.

Hinted at in Flashforwards
Secretary of National Intelligence Coordination and Oversight Douglas Coe of Virginia is suspected to be the true head of state of the Christian States of America, with his loyal deputy White House Chief of Staff Tim LaHaye by his side. The Christian States of America eventually collapsed in on itself in the early 1990s during a revolution and the former United States was reestablish, though without its seceded states. America received aide from the United Kingdom, Canada, and the United Nations. The UK helped the USA retake Washington, D.C. from the CSA.

Non-Canon Sequel Posts
The legitimist United States of America government in New England was led by former President Richard Nixon (I-NY) from 1992 until his death in February 1995. In 1992 a presidential election was held in the New England states which Nixon won unopposed with his former Vice President, Governor of New York and disgraced former President Spiro Agnew (I-NY) as his Vice President. Agnew subsequently lost re-election in 1996 to Governor of Vermont Bernie Sanders (WTP-VT).

In 1990 the Pacific Free Republic elected Ron Dellums (WTP-CA) as it's President to succeed President and former Governor of California Pete McCloskey (WTP-CA). Dellums' successor Jerry Brown (WTP-CA), a former cabinet member in the McCloskey administration, was elected in 1998 and rules the increasingly totalitarian and autocratic Pacific Free Republic with an iron fist to this day.

 

[Pax_Nihil]

I recently found that that the Alaska Governor who in Rumsfeldia declared independence once the CV took power apparently was actually a member of an "Alaska Independence Party" in OTL close to the same time!

Wally Hickel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

That was probably why he was included in the process of the story lol

 

[FloridaMan561]

So I made a very in-depth list of US presidents in the universe of FLG '72 and Rumsfeldia, including senate and house elections and important dates and events. Couldn't think of a better spot to post this than here.

List of Presidents of the United States
37. Former Vice President Richard Nixon of New York/Governor Spiro Agnew of Maryland (Republican): January 20, 1969 - January 20, 1973
Def. 1968: Vice President Hubert Humphrey of Minnesota/Senator Edmund Muskie of Maine (Democratic), Former Governor George Wallace of Alabama/Former Chief of Staff of the Air Force Curtis LeMay of California (American Independent) | 301-191-46 Electoral Vote/43.4%-42.6%-13.5% Popular Vote
As Acting President, Vice President Spiro Agnew of Maryland/Vice President Spiro Agnew of Maryland (Republican): January 20, 1973 - September 5, 1973
Vice President Spiro Agnew served as Acting President from January 20 to September 5, 1973 during the contingent presidential election.
1972 Senate Elections: 51 D (-3), 46 R (+2), 2 IND (+1), 1 C (-)
1972 House Elections: 231 D (-24), 203 R (+23), 1 IND (+1)
Former Governor John J. McKeithen of Louisiana/Acting President Spiro Agnew of Maryland (Democratic/Republican): September 5, 1973 (Died Before Assuming Office)
Def. 1972 (via contingent election): Former Governor John J. McKeithen of Louisiana/Senator Birch Bayh of Indiana (Democratic), President Richard Nixon of California/Vice President Spiro Agnew of Maryland (Republican), Governor George Wallace of Alabama/Lieutenant Governor Lester Maddox of Georgia (Independent), Senator George McGovern of South Dakota/Representative Pete McCloskey of California (Peace and Freedom) | 267-259-9-2 Electoral Vote/45.7%-45.7%-6.3%-0.6% Popular Vote/28-15-4-3 Final House Vote/50+VP-50 Senate Vote
July 31, 1973: Death of former Governor and presumptive president-elect John J. McKeithen in a plane crash in Boston, Massachusetts.
September 5, 1973: Election of former Governor John J. McKeithen posthumously as President by the House of Representatives in the contingent presidential election.
38. Acting President Spiro Agnew of Maryland/vacant, [Representative John Ashbrook of Ohio] (Republican): September 5, 1973 - November 7, 1973 (Impeached)
October 11, 1973: Rejection of Representative John Ashbrook for Vice President by Congress (59-40).
October 12, 1973: Election of retired Lieutenant General and former Ambassador to France James M. Gavin as Speaker of the House of Representatives (391-42-2).
November 7, 1973: Impeachment and conviction of President Spiro Agnew for accepting bribes in the course of his public duties, corruption in awarding public contracts, tax evasion (for not paying taxes on the bribes), accepting unlawful bribes in a Federal government office, bringing the offices of the Vice Presidency and Presidency into disrepute, making unlawful campaign contributions with the proceeds of criminal activity, conspiracy to abuse the power of his office (for issuing himself a pardon), and obstruction of justice (for issuing pardons to his co-conspirators) (312-123/312-123/310-125/309-126/291-144/244-191/219-216/219-216/90-9).
39. Speaker of the House of Representatives James M. Gavin of Massachusetts/vacant (Independent): November 7, 1973 - March 20, 1974
March 20, 1974: Confirmation of former Governor William Scranton as Vice President (98-2/397-38).
1974 Senate Elections: 59 D (+8), 38 R (-8), 2 IND (-), 1 C (-)
1974 House Elections: 261 D (+31), 204 R (-31), 1 IND (-)
39. President James M. Gavin of Massachusetts/Former Governor William Scranton of Pennsylvania (Independent/Republican): March 20, 1974 - January 20, 1977
40. Governor George Wallace of Alabama/Former Ambassador to the United Kingdom Nicholas Katzenbach of New Jersey (Democratic): January 20, 1977 - January 2, 1979
Def. 1976: Former Governor Ronald Reagan of California/Senator Charles Percy of Illinois (Republican) | 272-266 Electoral Vote/46.5%-46.4% Popular Vote
1976 Senate Elections: 48 D (-11), 48 R (+10), 3 IND (-), 1 L (+1)
1976 House Elections: 216 D (-46), 212 R (+39), 3 L (+3), 2 SW (+2), 1 AAFP (+1), 1 IND (+1)
As Acting President, Vice President Nicholas Katzenbach of New Jersey/Vice President Nicholas Katzenbach of New Jersey (Democratic): September 19, 1978 - October 12, 1978
Vice President Nicholas Katzenbach served as Acting President from September 19 to October 12, 1978 while Wallace recovered from a seizure.
October 12, 1978: Declaration of Wallace that he is fit to resume the duties of the presidency.
As Acting President, Vice President Nicholas Katzenbach of New Jersey/Vice President Nicholas Katzenbach of New Jersey (Democratic): October 13, 1978 - December 6, 1978
October 13, 1978: Declaration by the Vice President and the Cabinet that President George Wallace is still unfit to resume the duties of the presidency (10-3).
Vice President Nicholas Katzenbach served as Acting President from October 13 to December 6, 1978 while Wallace was unfit to resume the duties of the presidency.
1978 Senate Elections: 51 D (+4), 46 R (-4), 1 IND (-1), 1 L (-), 1 CVM (+1)
1978 House Elections: 225 R (+12), 201 D (-14), 4 L (+1), 2 SW (-), 2 AAFP (+1), 1 CVM (+1)
December 6, 1978: The Joint Congressional Committee Regarding the President's Fitness to Serve votes that Wallace is fit to resume office and President George Wallace is re-instated to his office (22-2).
January 2, 1979: Resignation of Vice President Nicholas Katzenbach in order to clear away for good any doubts as to his motives and intentions and those of the cabinet during the 1978 Constitutional Crisis.
40. President George Wallace of Alabama/vacant, [Governor Richard Lamm of Colorado] (Democratic): January 2, 1979 - November 11, 1979
October 8, 1979: Impeachment and acquittal of President George Wallace for violating the law by ordering the armed forces of the United States to provide direct military assistance to the Somoza regime in direct violation of pertinent Congressional Acts prohibiting this activity (251-184/53-47).
November 1, 1979: Rejection of Governor Richard Lamm for Vice President by the House of Representatives (58-40/220-215).
November 11, 1979: Confirmation of former Vice President William Scranton as Vice President by Congress (362-73/89-11).
40. President George Wallace of Alabama/Former Vice President William Scranton of Pennsylvania (Democratic/Republican): November 11, 1979 - January 19, 1981
January 19, 1981: Resignation of Vice President William Scranton so that he can be sworn in as a Federal Appellate Judge.
40. President George Wallace of Alabama/vacant (Democratic): January 19, 1981 - January 20, 1981
41. Governor Donald Rumsfeld of Illinois/Representative Jack Edwards of Alabama (Republican): January 20, 1981 - September 12, 1986
Def. 1980 (Lost Popular Vote to Carey): Governor Hugh Carey of New York/Former Governor Reubin Askew of Florida (Democratic), Former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Ron Dellums of California/Activist Ralph Nader of Connecticut (We The People), Senator Ronald Galtieri of Montana/Businessman David Koch of New York (Libertarian), various regional candidates (Christian Values Movement) | 297-227-11-1-0 Electoral Vote/40.8%-39.4%-8.1%-5.4%-3.0% Popular Vote
1980 Senate Elections: 48 D (-3), 48 R (+2), 2 L (+1), 1 CV (-), 1 IND (-)
1980 House Elections: 213 R (-12), 204 D (+3), 6 CVM (+5), 5 WTP (+5), 4 L (-), 1 SWP (-1), 1 AAFP (-1), 1 IND (-)
1982 Senate Elections: 49 R (+1), 47 D (-1), 2 L (-), 1 CV (-), 1 WTP (-)
1982 House Elections: 215 R (+2), 205 D (+1), 6 WTP (+1), 5 CVM (-1), 3 L (-1), 1 AAFP (-), 0 SWP (-1), 0 IND (-1)
1982 Gubernatorial Elections: 27 R (+8), 21 D (-7), 1 L (-1), 1AI (-)
Def. 1984 (Lost Popular Vote to McCloskey): Governor Pete McCloskey of California/Former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Ron Dellums of Washington, D.C. (Democratic/We The People), Activist Richard Viguerie of Texas/Former Navy Admiral Jeremiah Denton of Alabama (Christian Values), Former Chair of the Libertarian National Committee David Bergland of California/Former Representative to the Libertarian National Committee James A. Lewis of Connecticut (Libertarian), Reverend Jesse Jackson of Illinois/Former Mayor of San Francisco George Moscone of California (We The People) | 316-171-27-16-8 Electoral Vote/33.7%-32.6%-13.2%-12.9%-7.1% Popular Vote
1984 Senate Elections: 53 R (+4), 39 D (-8), 4 CV (+3), 3 L (+1), 1 WTP (-)
1984 House Elections: 219 R (+4), 200 D (-5), 7 CVM (+2), 6 WTP (-), 4 L (-), 1 AAFP (-), 1 IND (+1)
September 11, 1986: 1986 United States coup d'état attempt by former Secretary of Defense Alexander Haig, Lieutenant Colonel Jeb Bush, Senator Jimmy Carter, and Vice President Jack Edwards foiled by the Executive Protection Agency and the FSB thanks to intelligence from Sarah Louise Heath.
September 12, 1986: Resignation of Vice President Jack Edwards due to an alleged nervous breakdown.
41. President Donald Rumsfeld of Illinois/vacant (Republican): September 12, 1986 - January 7, 1987
1986 Senate Appointments: 70 R (+13), 21 D (-18), 7 CV (+3), 2 L (-1), 0 WTP (-1)
1986 House Elections: 284 R (+65), 90 D (-110), 54 CVM (+47), 5 WTP (-1), 2 L (-2), 1 AAFP (-), 0 IND (-1)
January 7, 1987: Confirmation of former Navy Admiral Jeremiah Denton as Vice President by Congress (55-45/225-210).
41. President Donald Rumsfeld of Illinois/Former Navy Admiral Jeremiah Denton of Alabama (Republican/Christian Values): January 7, 1988 - January 26, 1988 (Impeached)
As Acting President, Vice President Jeremiah Denton of Alabama/Vice President Jeremiah Denton of Alabama (Christian Values): January 21, 1988 - January 26, 1988
January 21, 1988: Declaration by the Vice President and the Cabinet that President Donald Rumsfeld is unfit to discharge the duties of the office of the presidency due to his nervous breakdown (10-0)
Vice President Jeremiah Denton served as Acting President from January 21 to January 26, 1988 while Rumsfeld recovered from an alleged nervous breakdown.
January 26, 1988: Impeachment and conviction of President Donald Rumsfeld under the charges that his nervous breakdown rendered him unsound to discharge the office of the presidency and that his removal represents an urgent necessity as his current condition is highly prejudicial to the public interest, for exercising negligent judgment in entrusting vital national security information in the hands of White House Chief of Staff Dick Cheney who subsequently "engaged in public acts of sedition against the United States", and ordering the use of public funds in a project adverse to the sound management of the public purse (384-51/79-21/84-16).
42. Acting President Jeremiah Denton of Alabama/vacant, [Former Governor Milton Shapp of Pennsylvania] (Christian Values, then Independent/Democratic): January 26, 1988 - January 20, 1989
June 5, 1988: Rejection of former Governor Milton Shapp for Vice President by Congress.
43. Secretary of National Intelligence Coordination and Oversight Pat Robertson of Virginia/Senator Steve Symms of Idaho (Christian Values): January 20, 1989 - June 30, 1989 (Died In Office)
Def. 1988: Senator William Winter of Mississippi/Senator William Roth of Delaware (Fusion), Senator Ronald Galtieri of Montana/Philosopher John Hospers of California (Libertarian), State Senator Bobby Rush of Illinois/Activist Charles Barron of New York (We The People), Governor George Wallace of Alabama/Former State Senator Tom Turnipseed of South Carolina (Independent), Governor Tom Foley of Washington/Former Senator Paul Sarbanes of Maryland (Democratic), Senator David R. Dwight of Massachusetts/Representative Shelby Smith of Kansas (Republican) | 250-163-52-13-8-0-0 Electoral Vote/31.2%-19.5%-18.1%-11.2%-8.7%-7.4%-0.6% Popular Vote
1988 Senate Appointments: 46 R (-24), 21 CV (+14), 20 D (-1), 7 L (+5), 2 IND (+2)
1988 House Elections: 200 CVM (+146), 71 L (+69), 50 R (-234), 49 D (-41), 16 WTP (+11), 1 IND (+1), 0 AAFP (-1)
March 11, 1989 Senate Makeup: 44 CV (+23), 23 R (-23), 20 D (-), 7 L (-), 2 IND (-)
April 15, 1989: The first battle of the Second American Civil War, a group of Mississippi National Guardsmen aligned with the Holy Battalion attempt to take over the town of Butler, Alabama. Despite being numerically superior to the Alabama Guard and Police there, they are driven back by the superior tactics of the Alabama forces. 25 Holy Battalions and 4 Alabamans lay dead.
June 1, 1989: Beginning of the Capitol Seige when all non-CV members of Congress held a peaceful protest and refused entry to all CV Senators and Representatives.
June 30, 1989: Death of President Pat Robertson in an unexplained helicopter crash aboard Marine One over Eastern Virginia.
44. Vice President Steve Symms of Idaho/vacant (Christian Values): June 30, 1989 - present
Vice President Steve Symms was not sworn in as president and claimed to be only the Acting President in place of the Eternal President Jesus Christ, but is recognized by historians as the 44th and last president of the United States.
July 4, 1989: The Obliteration of the Capitol Building by 6 Pershing Missiles fired on orders from Secretary of National Intelligence Coordination and Oversight Douglas Coe, ending the Capitol Seige and killing all non-CV members of Congress.
July 13, 1989: The beginning of the American Inquisition, or the American Purge. From July 14 to August 28, between 100,000 people are charged under various "moral crimes", sentenced to either death, or hard labor. Among the more prominent figures who fall victim to the inquisition are former Secretary of Defense William Kristol, former Vice President Jack Edwards, former Speaker of the House of Representatives Trent Lott, former Associate Justices of the Supreme Court Byron White and William Rehnquist, former Chief Justice of the United States Strom Thurmond, and former Governor of Indiana Otis Bowen.
August 31, 1989: Article V Constitutional Convention held among "moral states" for the ratification of a new Godly Constitution. The United States of America is officially renamed the Christian States of America, aka the CSA. The CSA claims the borders of the former USA, however it's borders are disputed with Canada, the Pacific Free Republic, the Alaskan Republic, the Kingdom of Hawaii, the Republic of Texas, Cuba, the United States of America in New England, the U.N. Trusteeship of former American territories, and the Bozeman Enclave Disputed Zone in the Western former United States.

Hinted at in Flashforwards
Secretary of National Intelligence Coordination and Oversight Douglas Coe of Virginia is suspected to be the true head of state of the Christian States of America, with his loyal deputy White House Chief of Staff Tim LaHaye by his side. The Christian States of America eventually collapsed in on itself in the early 1990s during a revolution and the former United States was reestablish, though without its seceded states. America received aide from the United Kingdom, Canada, and the United Nations. The UK helped the USA retake Washington, D.C. from the CSA.

Non-Canon Sequel Posts
The legitimist United States of America government in New England was led by former President Richard Nixon (I-NY) from 1992 until his death in February 1995. In 1992 a presidential election was held in the New England states which Nixon won unopposed with his former Vice President, Governor of New York and disgraced former President Spiro Agnew (I-NY) as his Vice President. Agnew subsequently lost re-election in 1996 to Governor of Vermont Bernie Sanders (WTP-VT).

In 1990 the Pacific Free Republic elected Ron Dellums (WTP-CA) as it's President to succeed President and former Governor of California Pete McCloskey (WTP-CA). Dellums' successor Jerry Brown (WTP-CA), a former cabinet member in the McCloskey administration, was elected in 1998 and rules the increasingly totalitarian and autocratic Pacific Free Republic with an iron fist to this day.

This timeline must be completed!! My own project avoids Rumsfeldia all together, but I'd love to see the original trajectory completed!

 

[Tsar Nicholas The Cringe]

So I made a very in-depth list of US presidents in the universe of FLG '72 and Rumsfeldia, including senate and house elections and important dates and events. Couldn't think of a better spot to post this than here.

Yeesh. Looking at that electoral map underscores how much of a shitshow this TL was. Whether or not you think it was an interesting shitshow depends on your perspective I suppose. While it is understandable people call this movie implausible, 1930s Germany, 1970s Cambodia, and 1990s Yugoslavia are three examples of nations that collapsed into madness once they endured pressures and strains they couldn't cope with. The TTL 1970s for America were so painful, its not hard to imagine people turning to more radical forms of ideology.

That was probably why he was included in the process of the story lol

I don't consider the Alaska Independence Party a serious movement but more of a manifestation of Alaska's unique political traditions. OTL, it only got any traction in the 1990 Alaska gubernatorial was because the Republicans thought their gubernatorial nominee was too liberal, and so endorsed Wally Hickel and Jack Coghill and eventually, the two went back to the GOP anyways.

Hickel TTL endorsing Alaskan secession should be a sign of how much the US decayed in Rumsfeldia that he and the rest of Alaska wanted out of Dodge.

This timeline must be completed!! My own project avoids Rumsfeldia all together, but I'd love to see the original trajectory completed!

Agreed.

 

[David Ritz]

This timeline must be completed!! My own project avoids Rumsfeldia all together, but I'd love to see the original trajectory completed!

It has been a while since you have made a new post there.