European microstates in Africa and Asia after decolonisation

zarathustra

Hello everyone,

I've been thinking about the possibility of more microstates, born from trading posts, dotting the landscapes of Africa and Asia.
maybe a more nuanced 'Scramble for Africa', characterised not by sweeping territorial grabs, but by strategic alliances with local kingdoms. In this alternate scenario, these microstates manage to maintain their sovereignty, resisting absorption by larger neighbours and avoiding relegation to the status of overseas regions.Not sure about the implications of such approach though .

Or even a more "organised" decolonisation process may help
Consider historical enclaves like Goa, Pondicherry, or the Danish Gold Coast. Even Hong Kong and Macau could serve as interesting points of comparison, though their histories took different trajectories. This may open the possibility for more fart fetched colonial powers like the russians/austrians/italians/poles/swedes have their little possessions(not that the topic of "X power colonial empire wasn't already discussed multiple times, but I think it could be interesting to think about it)

Admittedly, my knowledge on the Maluku Islands and the intricacies of Indonesian independence is limited, but it could also provide a rich field for exploration and discussion.
 

MrHappy

I saw an old map of The Gambia with an assortment of national enclaves lining the river and extending some distance inland. Dakar and Cape Town come to mind. Offshore island would seem to be easier to defend, like Zanzibar, Hainan, or Penang.
 

zarathustra

kholieken said:
Such tiny enclaves is impossible to defend. Goa and HK always dependent on bigger neighbour to not attack.
Click to expand...
I know this is the biggest issue, but several Europe microstates manage to survive to this day. You may argue that some princely states could do the same too. Also, you could imagine some sort of agreement between the ex-colonies and the former colonial powers. Imagine the UN asserting to India that interfering with Goa is out of question.
 

zarathustra

MrHappy said:
I saw an old map of The Gambia with an assortment of national enclaves lining the river and extending some distance inland. Dakar and Cape Town come to mind. Offshore island would seem to be easier to defend, like Zanzibar, Hainan, or Penang.
Click to expand...
What inspired me to think about this was the "How could we have a Danish/Swedish Gold Coast enclave? ". I Do not like the idea of considering bantustans as such tho

herkles said:
If Sarawak wasn't ceded as a crown colony after ww2 would that count or is it too big?
Click to expand...
While I'm not going to stipulate size/population limitations here, I'm thinking more about something between Liechtenstein and Luxembourg
So in this case it may be "too big" indeed XD
 

MrHappy

zarathustra said:
What inspired me to think about this was the "How could we have a Danish/Swedish Gold Coast enclave? ". I Do not like the idea of considering bantustans as such tho
Click to expand...
I had also seen the map showing each nations little stretch of coastline along the Gold Coast. I recall British, Dutch, Danish, Swede and Portuguese.

The Dutch holding Arguin Island.

Portuguese in Equatorial Guinea, or just Sao Tome, and perhaps Cabinda instead of all of Angola. Spain also held land and islands that are now part of Equatorial Guinea. French at Djibouti (just the port city). Germany held a small stretch of the Somali coast line near the border with Kenya.
 

zarathustra

MrHappy said:
I had also seen the map showing each nations little stretch of coastline along the Gold Coast. I recall British, Dutch, Danish, Swede and Portuguese.

The Dutch holding Arguin Island.

Portuguese in Equatorial Guinea, or just Sao Tome, and perhaps Cabinda instead of all of Angola. Spain also held land and islands that are now part of Equatorial Guinea. French at Djibouti (just the port city). Germany held a small stretch of the Somali coast line near the border with Kenya.
Click to expand...
one problem is: I really dont know how you could convince the European settlers to stay in those regions. Obviously there will be a large mixed/native population, but even then
Did the(few?) Portuguese in goa really wanted to keep living there?
 

Insane Ranter

Reunion, Mayotte, Melilla, Ceuta, Madeira, and Socotra are islands that could count I suppose.

Djibouti held until 1977 I believe. Have all these have a massive influx of Europeans maybe?
 

MrHappy

zarathustra said:
I really dont know how you could convince the European settlers to stay in those regions.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's the problem. African settlements (excepting South Africa) were uniformly saddled with every manner of disincentive for European families wanting to establish new lives abroad. By the 18th century, why would, say, a Danish settler family want to go to Dakar when they could go to Delaware?
 

zarathustra

athgtq16129 said:
Does Djibouti (a.k.a. French Territory of the Afars and the Issas) counts? it belonged to France as late as 1977.
Click to expand...
Good point. My knowledge about Djibouti is limited. To be honest I don't know their history as a colony.
Hoe strong was/are French culture there?
 

how

French keep a small section of Algeria for Pied-Noir and Italy keeps Tripoli, both could be protectorates to fulfil the microstate aspect, Pied-Noir were 10% of the Algerian population in 1960 but were found at higher percentages in Alger and Oran so a protectorate including those regions and a small costal stip to connect them. Italians in Libya were approx 16% of the population as of 1939 so with longer Italian settlement then come decolonisation a breakaway state could be formed protected by Italy, during this period 2 state solutions were all the rage after all it is interesting that no North-Ireland esque partitions took place in Algeria for instance.

Spanish protectorate of North Africa is another one, Portugal could have kept Capo Verde if that counts along with East Timor, Macau could also have been kept.
 
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Gentian1707

Gentian1707

British Ceylons Nuwara Eliya district could have become an enclave. It's where most of the British who ran Ceylon, those who owned the plantations lived. Climate was so close to British climate they called the region little England, just without the winter but having access to trophic beaches with just a two hours drive. When British gave freedom to Ceylon in the form of Dominion of Ceylon, it was simply outsourcing the management while retaining every economically beneficial thing possible. They expected the British educated, politically planted local ruling elite would continue the status quo and didn't see a reason to secure their economically important assets in a more permanent basis. They were proven wrong in 1972 when those local ruling elites declared full independence and became a republic, nationalizing all the plantations etc, driving those British out of Nuwaraeliya.

In a POD where the British decided to make Nuwara Eliya a sovereign British holding while giving power over to the rest of the island, things would have gone very smoothly for both sides concerned.
 
The_Persian_Cat

The_Persian_Cat

Algeria had a large number of French pied-noir settlers, and was heavily segregated. The pied-noirs were never the majority, but they were a sizeable minority and ascendancy, like the Irish Protestants or White South Africans. I think it's very likely that the Muslim majority would have achieved independence eventually, but if the Algerian War had gone differently and both sides were more willing to compromise, perhaps the city of Algiers itself would remain in French hands, and become sort of like Ceuta or Mellila is for Spain?

Of course, if that happened, I imagine the Muslim-majority Arab/Berber state would not be called "Algeria." Perhaps Tlemcen, Tahert, Bejaia, or Oran would be chosen as the capital instead, and the emergent state would be known as "Numidia" or something.
 

zarathustra

how said:
East Timor, Macau could also have been kept
Click to expand...
Sorry but how? I need to study more about Portugal Colonial holdings, but as far as i've heard, Portugal was poor, and lacked the man and military power to do this.
(Like Goa). Actually I just checked here on a map and realised I dont know anything about East Timor
 

how

zarathustra said:
Sorry but how? I need to study more about Portugal Colonial holdings, but as far as i've heard, Portugal was poor, and lacked the man and military power to do this.
(Like Goa). Actually I just checked here on a map and realised I dont know anything about East Timor
Click to expand...
Have Portugal be less poor, after the fall of the Estado Novo, Portugal wanted to get rid of the colonies and focus on developing Portugal, still even with the sorry financial state of Portugal if the Estado Novo either continued (Salazar lives longer / transfer to a conservative monarch success a la Francoist Spain) or if Portugal was more financially developed then maintaining East Timor, Capo Verde and Macau would not have been a financial drain, East Timor and Macau would in fact have been net benefits due to East Timors gas and Macau being a financial, manufacturing and gambling hub, Capo Verde would be a drain but it would not be too expensive and at least it could expand Portugals already sizeable territorial waters.

Btw I didn't mention Goa on purpose, I didn't forget about it, it was hopeless to keep there is a reason it was taken in the 60s during the height of the Estado Novo and Macau lasted until just before the turn of the millenium and was given over to P.R.C, Goa is in the same boat as Angola and Mozambique where it would be too difficult to keep to the modern day no matter how suppressive Portugal was.
 
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Hvalrossen

zarathustra said:
Hello everyone,

I've been thinking about the possibility of more microstates, born from trading posts, dotting the landscapes of Africa and Asia.
maybe a more nuanced 'Scramble for Africa', characterised not by sweeping territorial grabs, but by strategic alliances with local kingdoms. In this alternate scenario, these microstates manage to maintain their sovereignty, resisting absorption by larger neighbours and avoiding relegation to the status of overseas regions.Not sure about the implications of such approach though .

Or even a more "organised" decolonisation process may help
Consider historical enclaves like Goa, Pondicherry, or the Danish Gold Coast. Even Hong Kong and Macau could serve as interesting points of comparison, though their histories took different trajectories. This may open the possibility for more fart fetched colonial powers like the russians/austrians/italians/poles/swedes have their little possessions(not that the topic of "X power colonial empire wasn't already discussed multiple times, but I think it could be interesting to think about it)

Admittedly, my knowledge on the Maluku Islands and the intricacies of Indonesian independence is limited, but it could also provide a rich field for exploration and discussion.
Click to expand...
Ceuta and Melilla are two Spanish enclaves, and they are the closest to being European microstates on the African continent. The only difference between them and the microstates of Europe (Liechtenstein, San Marino, Monaco, Andorra) is unlike these microstates they are not independent.

It is possible that more such enclaves could exist. One option is that some small enclaves are administered separately from the proper colonies, and after decolonization stay with a European mother country.
kholieken said:
Such tiny enclaves is impossible to defend. Goa and HK always dependent on bigger neighbour to not attack.
Click to expand...
It is not a certainty that such small enclaves are going to be threatened by invasion. Instead it could be recognized by it's neighbors as a independent territory or exclave of some European country. Lack of state capacity and chaos might also make any invasion unfeasible even if it was desired. If any invasion is not quick enough or able to deny the area of operations then reinforcements could arrive and overturn the situation.
 
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