Dutch army adopt Finnish small arms in late thirties

[Parma]

Although I am convinced that the only weapons does not change any military conflict but never the less small question thread.

In Finland there was a development which resulted in the liht sub-machine gun Suomi M31 and the due to the favorable experiences with the BAR by the Swedish army the Fins developed the light machine gun ''Sampo''L34

Around 1936 the Finish airforce where very enthousiast by the Fokker D21 fighter. The Fins aquired a lincence to build this fighter plane. Due to this contacts between Finland and Fokker some of the Dutch army officers came in contact with the Suomi M31 and the developments of the L34.

The Dutch army desired a submachine gun and awknolledge that the Leweis M20 had its limits in use in the field.

After a very short test round the M31 recieved a very favourable judgement. And in a rare moment of swift decision making by the Dutch gouvernment an order was placed and a licence was aquired for the State owned Artilerie Inrichtingen (AI) arms factory.
Almost in paralel theL34 was tested and with the same favourable test results. Although this machine gun was not adopted by the Finish armed forces a licence was bought and the AI took this machine gun in production.
Both the M31 submachine gun and the L34 light machine gun were taken in production mid 1937.

Of the M31 around 300 were ordered in Finland and delivered by March 1940
The AI produced up to May 1940 some 8500 of these weapons. The aim was to have two of these per platoon or section/

Of the L34 the AI produced some 1500 before May 1940. The production of the Lewis M20 was stoped, of this weapon were around 8000 produced.

For both weapons a lot of parts were produced at sub contracotrs and assembled at the AI which significantly increased production.

With the production of the L34 the number of more than 10000 light machine guns was met, this inlcuded the number of M20 Lewis.

The use of the L34 did not gave much problems, how ever the use of the M31 gave some doctine issues how ever the sections equiped with it around The Hague and Air base Waalhaven, South of Rotterdam found very fast by trial and error the use of it.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

Although I am convinced that the only weapons does not change any military conflict but never the less small question thread.

In Finland there was a development which resulted in the liht sub-machine gun Suomi M31 and the due to the favorable experiences with the BAR by the Swedish army the Fins developed the light machine gun ''Sampo''L34

Around 1936 the Finish airforce where very enthousiast by the Fokker D21 fighter. The Fins aquired a lincence to build this fighter plane. Due to this contacts between Finland and Fokker some of the Dutch army officers came in contact with the Suomi M31 and the developments of the L34.

The Dutch army desired a submachine gun and awknolledge that the Leweis M20 had its limits in use in the field.

After a very short test round the M31 recieved a very favourable judgement. And in a rare moment of swift decision making by the Dutch gouvernment an order was placed and a licence was aquired for the State owned Artilerie Inrichtingen (AI) arms factory.
Almost in paralel theL34 was tested and with the same favourable test results. Although this machine gun was not adopted by the Finish armed forces a licence was bought and the AI took this machine gun in production.
Both the M31 submachine gun and the L34 light machine gun were taken in production mid 1937.

Of the M31 around 300 were ordered in Finland and delivered by March 1940
The AI produced up to May 1940 some 8500 of these weapons. The aim was to have two of these per platoon or section/

Of the L34 the AI produced some 1500 before May 1940. The production of the Lewis M20 was stoped, of this weapon were around 8000 produced.

For both weapons a lot of parts were produced at sub contracotrs and assembled at the AI which significantly increased production.

With the production of the L34 the number of more than 10000 light machine guns was met, this inlcuded the number of M20 Lewis.

The use of the L34 did not gave much problems, how ever the use of the M31 gave some doctine issues how ever the sections equiped with it around The Hague and Air base Waalhaven, South of Rotterdam found very fast by trial and error the use of it.

What does this change from OTL?

 

[Sekhmet_D]

What does this change from OTL?

Widespread M31 use could make things much more costly for the Japanese during their invasion of the Indies, given that the IJA was very light on automatic small arms.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

Widespread M31 use could make things much more costly for the Japanese during their invasion of the Indies, given that the IJA was very light on automatic small arms.

Not really, the DEI were strategically screwed, and pistol-calibre weapons won't change that.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

Widespread M31 use could make things much more costly for the Japanese during their invasion of the Indies, given that the IJA was very light on automatic small arms.

Won't the Dutch army first give the new weapons to the armies in the homeland and neglect the armies in Indonesia?

 

[HJ Tulp]

Won't the Dutch army first give the new weapons to the armies in the homeland and neglect the armies in Indonesia?

Two different procurement paths actually, as the Dutch army and the KNIL were two totally different entities. This could also mean that the KNIL never adopts the Finnish small arms.

With regards to the significance, I agree that, in the greater scheme of things, small arms usually have small consequences. There might be potential for a snowballing effect though. If, for example, the better small arms allow the Dutch army to more successfully defend against the German paratroopers (themselves lightly armed) and keep control over the Moerdijk- and Dordrecht-bridges that could make for a more protracted defense of Vesting Holland.

 

[von Adler]

The prevailing European and American doctrine on the sub-machinegun in the 30s was either as a replacement of the pistol for rear combat formations, such as mortar crews, runners and messengers, radio crews and so on, or as a special weapon to be issued for special missions (such as trench raids, ambushes and so on). US 1944 ToE for regular infantry (the airborne troops being the only real exception) had 6 sub-machine guns available at the company HQ to be issued for special missions.

It was really only the Germans that considered the sub-machine gun a squad weapon, due to their experiences with such weapons during the last part of ww1, and even then only the lower Welle troops had a singe sub-machine gun per squad. The Finns themselves did not consider the sub-machine gun an NCO weapon, but rather a cheap replacement for an LMG. At the onset of the winter war, half of Finnish squads had an LMG, and half had a sub-machine gun.

The sub-machine gun was considered a potential wastage of ammunition and a logistical strain as the squad would now have a demand for large quantities of ammunition of a different kind (needing both pistol rounds and rifle rounds) and problematic due to the difference in range compared to the rifle and LMG. In a lot of countries, it was gendarmes and police that got sub-machine guns first, with the idea that they would be fighting close quarters in cities against coups and revolts.

It was the winter war and the German invasion of France that showed the world how effective the sub-machine gun could be as an NCO weapon.

The Dutch army was starved of resources in the 20s and 30s, and I doubt they'd be forethinking enough to start equipping their squads with 2 sub-machineguns per squad. A pool at the company level sounds more plausible, and they'll of course all be used as soon as hostilities start (like the Americans did) and if production keeps up, they might have most squads equipped with 1 sub-machinegun by the time of the German invasion.

If the Dutch are willing to spend more resources on their army, I think they would be far, far better served by moving up re-quippping their medium artillery battalions (1 per division) with Bofors 105mm howitzers, replacing the ANCIENT 1878 Krupp 125mm guns and perhaps upgrading all their 75mm Krupp guns to the HiH Siderius M02/04 standard (instead of just 1 battalion), which increased range (from 6,6km to 10,6km) travers and allowed for motorised towing. Replacing the equally ANCIENT 84mm Krupp 1880 cannons that were used by reserve formations.

 

[Parma]

What does this change from OTL?

Probably not much
I know very well that the succes of the German attack was more based on a better doctrine, training, perseverence and leadership than the influence of weapons.
But I was just imagine if the German airborne troopers were confronted wiht some Dutch companies equiped with the more reliable M34 ( compared tot he Lewis M20) and were the NCO's equiped with a weapon as the Suomi M31. Or as the Fins ,the Dutch ssaw the M31 as a cheap suplement to the LMG's.
The increased fire power would have a boost and the confidence of the Dutch soldiers would be bigger. even if it was just supressing fire.

I was thinking this might lead to a total failure of the Fallschirmjagers operations of 10 May 1940. The German airborne operation around The Hague was not realy succsesfull and would end in total disaster if the war in the Netherlands would continue an other day.
The airbornlandings aound Rotterdam and Dordrecht were much more succesfull.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

Probably not much
I know very well that the succes of the German attack was more based on a better doctrine, training, perseverence and leadership than the influence of weapons.
But I was just imagine if the German airborne troopers were confronted wiht some Dutch companies were the NCO's equiped with a weapon as the Suomi M31.
The fire power would have a boost and the confidence of the Dutch soldiers would be bigger

If the Dutch decided to fight thanks to this that would mean the 7th French Army is somewhere in the Netherlands when the breaktrough in the Ardennes happens, doesn't really help.

 

[Parma]

If the Dutch are willing to spend more resources on their army, I think they would be far, far better served by moving up re-quippping their medium artillery battalions (1 per division) with Bofors 105mm howitzers, replacing the ANCIENT 1878 Krupp 125mm guns and perhaps upgrading all their 75mm Krupp guns to the HiH Siderius M02/04 standard (instead of just 1 battalion), which increased range (from 6,6km to 10,6km) travers and allowed for motorised towing. Replacing the equally ANCIENT 84mm Krupp 1880 cannons that were used by reserve formations.

I thought all the Krupp 75 mm guns were upgraded in the 20ties by HIH Isderius. Only in the 30ties a few bateries were upraded for motorised tracktion, to be used i the socalled "Light Division''.
The Dutch were intend to increas the Bofors 105 mm fieldgun/howitzer in oredr to replace the 19th century guns. However the inner barrel forgings had to ome from Sweden were the Bofors factiry had a serious production cpacity problem. As I understood there were 100 forgings ordered and a large number of them were actually delivered by Bofors. Dutch State arms factory, AI, could build the guns ( barrel and lock) while the complete undercariage of the gun was manufactured by RDM Rotterdam.

 

[Parma]

If the Dutch decided to fight thanks to this that would mean the 7th French Army is somewhere in the Netherlands when the breaktrough in the Ardennes happens, doesn't really help.

No, you are correct. The French were not keen to advance as far as Breda, which they did, and retreated very fast.
You must see the invasion of the Netherlands as a side front. Nothing more than a battle on the flank.
The thing is , if the German airborn assault would fail this would have some repercussions on the global military view of this new type of infantery or assault form.
The German airborn assault on the Netherlands in May 1940, was the first large scale airborn assaul in militairy history.