Competition to Christianity in a World Without Islam

[Whiteshore]

In a world without Islam (let's just say Muhammad dies a sickly infant or something along those lines), an assumption is that Christianity is a religion which does better without the Islamic Conquests with how the Middle East and North Africa were very much centers of Christianity prior to the rise of Islam and there were arguably more Christians in Asia than in Europe at this time period.

However, despite this, Christianity would certainly still not be the only religion in the world and face stiff competition from other religions which likewise would benefit from a world without Islam, so, the question is what kind of religions would there be in a world without Islam that could easily provide competition to Christianity, particularly with how Zoroastrianism and Buddhism could be seen as major competitors to Christianity in a world where Islam never existed. What kinds of religious wars could we see in this alternate history as the lack of Islam would certainly not bring an end to religious conflict? I personally see Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, and Manichaeism as the main potential competitors to Christianity in a world without Islam, especially with how Buddhism would be the other great proselytising religion that would be present in this alternate history, but any other thoughts on this question?

 

[Lalli]

Probably several Christian sects would rival each others. Other religions weren't such intrested to convert people or expand their influence. But Tengrism on Central Asia, Zoroastrianism in Persia and parts of Central Asia and Hinduism/Buddhism would are some challenges when Christians try spread their religion.

 

[Arkenfolm]

Several options:
1. Another new monotheistic religion. There are many areas at the periphery of the Christian world like Arabia and North Africa where Christians and indigenous "Jews" (like the Berber Jews) lived amongst each other. So it's possible in that religious environment and with several Christian sects competing that an entirely new religion emerges. Notably, there was a very radical splinter sect of Islam among the Barghawata tribe of Berbers OTL--maybe something similar emerges in this world
2. Manichaeism. It was clearly a widespread faith that ultimately only died out because of sustained persecution, lack of elite support (beside the Uyghur Khanate at one point), and the assimilation of its remnant followers with Buddhism. It could be a lot larger and perhaps stands a chance of becoming the state religion of Iran in a post-Sassanid era.
3. Some other gnostic-inspired sect. There were a number of them, they could all become larger and become major competitors

Other than that, it's clear the main competitor to Christianity is going to be other Christians of rival sects. As long as there is no unity in Europe, there will be challengers. I wouldn't consider Zoroastrian much of a competitor since it was a Persian ethnic religion practiced in organised form by those who were close to the Sassanid elite--it's not really a missionary faith. Buddhism is too distant and declining in influence in India by the end of Late Antiquity, and I think smaller Buddhist communities would just become blended with the gnostics and similar groups (as seems to have happened OTL with those communities created by the missionaries Ashoka sent into the Hellenistic world).

 

[Whiteshore]

Buddhism is too distant and declining in influence in India by the end of Late Antiquity, and I think smaller Buddhist communities would just become blended with the gnostics and similar groups (as seems to have happened OTL with those communities created by the missionaries Ashoka sent into the Hellenistic world).

Well, I would say that whether Buddhism becomes the main competitor to Christianity or not depends on the religious trajectory of the Turks with how, in a scenario in a world without Islam, the Turks adopt Buddhism could make it the main competitor to Christianity. On that note, the ability of Manichaeism to pose a challenge to Christianity depends on its ability to achieve staying power amongst the Turkic nomads of Central Asia.

 

[Stellar_Lights]

Several options:
1. Another new monotheistic religion. There are many areas at the periphery of the Christian world like Arabia and North Africa where Christians and indigenous "Jews" (like the Berber Jews) lived amongst each other. So it's possible in that religious environment and with several Christian sects competing that an entirely new religion emerges. Notably, there was a very radical splinter sect of Islam among the Barghawata tribe of Berbers OTL--maybe something similar emerges in this world
2. Manichaeism. It was clearly a widespread faith that ultimately only died out because of sustained persecution, lack of elite support (beside the Uyghur Khanate at one point), and the assimilation of its remnant followers with Buddhism. It could be a lot larger and perhaps stands a chance of becoming the state religion of Iran in a post-Sassanid era.
3. Some other gnostic-inspired sect. There were a number of them, they could all become larger and become major competitors

Other than that, it's clear the main competitor to Christianity is going to be other Christians of rival sects. As long as there is no unity in Europe, there will be challengers. I wouldn't consider Zoroastrian much of a competitor since it was a Persian ethnic religion practiced in organised form by those who were close to the Sassanid elite--it's not really a missionary faith. Buddhism is too distant and declining in influence in India by the end of Late Antiquity, and I think smaller Buddhist communities would just become blended with the gnostics and similar groups (as seems to have happened OTL with those communities created by the missionaries Ashoka sent into the Hellenistic world).

Points #1 and #3 are nothing but OTL Islam, in a different region. Islam has inspirations from Gnosticism, Zoroastrianism/Zurvanism and Arab Paganism, along with Monophysite/Nestorian Christianity and Judaism forming it's main base. Some extinct variants of Islam were likely closer to Gnosticism.

I think the region that will birth this religion should be politically and institutionally developed enough for that, to avoid conversion to Christianity or Zoroastrianism/Zurvanism (the superpower faiths) in the first place. Germanic and Slavic tribes, Scythians/Sarmatians, Kurds, Caucasians like Chechens, C Albanians, Ingush, etc were not as advanced as the Arabs in that sense. Neither were the Berbers, in my opinion. Arabs were because they had access to strategic land area and trade routes. You can say that only Goths and Celts were nearly as advanced as the Arabs, before they embraced Christianity. So, if the Arabs somehow end up entirely Christian by the 600 AD, this religion may have to start in the peripheries of the later Christian World, when institutionally developed. By then, Celts were likely entirely Christian. Slavs were quickly converting. Only the Saxons and Baltic tribes may the candidates to pull this feat off, after 700 AD. In that case, I think a lot of the Eastern tribes might convert, eventually making into the collapsing Sassanid Empire, while the Western Europe gets conquered, while the East stays intact and Christian.

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

As someone has said before, Manicheism was a pretty popular religion back in the day and had a presence in places like Persia, Central Asia, China and India, having them expand into southeast Asia via trade routes and you'll have a religion that would be well established and would be a rival to Christian missionaries, especially if they're in positions of power.

Another obstacle that were already present in OTL were native religions like Hinduism and Shintoism, India for instance for several centuries were under Muslim overlords that despite incentives and pushes for conversion, never managed to be a majority in the subcontinent as a whole (even if they managed to be the majority in many areas and still are in other places in India). Even without Islam to become a roadblock to the Eastern Church and the Nestorians truly expanding all across Asia, I would safely say they would still face competition in the most populous nations like China, India and Indonesia via being against already established religions, even if they'll have big communities in there, I especially see the St. Thomas Christian community in Southern India being much larger and being a majority in Ceylon for instance, but don't expect the rest of the continent to follow the same pattern with a few exceptions of course(Christian version of Pakistan anyone?)

 

[Whiteshore]

I especially see the St. Thomas Christian community in Southern India being much larger and being a majority in Ceylon for instance, but don't expect the rest of the continent to follow the same pattern with a few exceptions of course(Christian version of Pakistan anyone?)

And speaking of the subcontinent, I could see Indian Buddhism hang on in modern-day Bengal in a world without Islam as it was the center of the last major Indian Buddhist dynasty in the Pala Empire and all that.

 

[Stellar_Lights]

And speaking of the subcontinent, I could see Indian Buddhism hang on in modern-day Bengal in a world without Islam as it was the center of the last major Indian Buddhist dynasty in the Pala Empire and all that.

Without Islam, Buddhism or a Hinduized version of Buddhism would be prevalent throughout South Asia. Hinduism exists in its Modern forms due to the Bhakti Movement which is closely inspired from Islam, such as giving up Tantrism and more of "Spiritual/Soul" based devotion to the Supreme Gods, rather than the more Nature based Gods of the previous centuries. Without Islam, Tantric Buddhism would be the likely candidate for the largest religion in South Asia, while Bactria would be Zoroastrian.

 

[Whiteshore]

Without Islam, Buddhism or a Hinduized version of Buddhism would be prevalent throughout South Asia. Hinduism exists in its Modern forms due to the Bhakti Movement which is closely inspired from Islam, such as giving up Tantrism and more of "Spiritual/Soul" based devotion to the Supreme Gods, rather than the more Nature based Gods of the previous centuries. Without Islam, Tantric Buddhism would be the likely candidate for the largest religion in South Asia, while Bactria would be Zoroastrian.

So, basically, sans Islam, Buddhism is the most likely contender for the position of "second-largest religion behind Christianity", if not outright overtaking it due to both India and China having sizable Buddhist populations? OTOH, an ATL version of the Bhakti Movement could still draw influence from Eastern Christianity in a world without Islam, particularly Nestorianism.

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

And speaking of the subcontinent, I could see Indian Buddhism hang on in modern-day Bengal in a world without Islam as it was the center of the last major Indian Buddhist dynasty in the Pala Empire and all that.

Without Islam, Buddhism or a Hinduized version of Buddhism would be prevalent throughout South Asia. Hinduism exists in its Modern forms due to the Bhakti Movement which is closely inspired from Islam, such as giving up Tantrism and more of "Spiritual/Soul" based devotion to the Supreme Gods, rather than the more Nature based Gods of the previous centuries. Without Islam, Tantric Buddhism would be the likely candidate for the largest religion in South Asia, while Bactria would be Zoroastrian.

It was the major religion in Indonesia after all alongside Hinduism, those two would be the biggest obstacles for the arriving Christian missionaries, so we'll see an even more religiously diverse Indonesia around.

Honestly I wouldn't count on Bactria and any other place outside of Persia maybe remaining Zoroastrian, it's a religion that really depended on the state to sustain and pump money into it, especially the more centralized version under the Sassanids. One of the many reasons Christianity and later Islam prevailed in former Zoroastrian areas was due to the fact they could function on their own and provide without needing much of the state, if the Sassanids fall like otl and a new Persian native empire fails to materialize, it's likely the religion will be pushed to the fringes as Christianity will take it's place, more so in areas like Mesopotamia, Central Asia, the Caucasus and other areas outside of the Iranian core(not coincidentally the areas that most diverged religiously in the Persian Empires) while in Iran proper, they're likely to still be around in bigger numbers(especially in the countryside and mountainous areas) but still a minority.

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

So, basically, sans Islam, Buddhism is the most likely contender for the position of "second-largest religion behind Christianity", if not outright overtaking it due to both India and China having sizable Buddhist populations? OTOH, an ATL version of the Bhakti Movement could still draw influence from Eastern Christianity in a world without Islam, particularly Nestorianism.

I wouldn't go that far, Buddhism declined for several reasons, mainly that the Temples the monks used and needed had to be maintained via donations usually and while that's well and good during times of peace, it becomes harder during times of war or general unrest. So while the Buddhist presence ITTL would be greater, I don't see them being super big, especially with no Islam to prevent Christian missionaries from spreading across the globe, places like Africa for instance, without the slave trade doing harm to the population there, will be majority Christian once the trade routes are revitalized post the collapse of the Roman and Sassanid empires.

 

[Whiteshore]

I wouldn't go that far, Buddhism declined for several reasons, mainly that the Temples the monks used and needed had to be maintained via donations usually and while that's well and good during times of peace, it becomes harder during times of war or general unrest. So while the Buddhist presence ITTL would be greater, I don't see them being super big, especially with no Islam to prevent Christian missionaries from spreading across the globe, places like Africa for instance, without the slave trade doing harm to the population there, will be majority Christian once the trade routes are revitalized post the collapse of the Roman and Sassanid empires.

So, "distant second behind Christianity", then?

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

So, "distant second behind Christianity", then?

If you don't consider Taoism a religion, then yes, given Buddhism would "only" have a presence in China and Japan, a small one in India, a majority in Indochina while being more spread out in places like Indonesia and the Philippines.

 

[Stellar_Lights]

a small one in India

Can't be sure about that. Modern Hinduism is butterflied away without Islam. But as Whiteshore said, if a Nestorian influenced Bhakti Hinduism could spread it's possible, but this is not easy. It will most likely remain Tantrism (which was what Vedic Hinduism was) along with Buddhism, both of which will likely fuse into Tantric Buddhism, an another branch, different from the ones in China, Japan and Indochina. Nalanda University is surviving, and hence you likely get new philosophies of Tantric Buddhism there.

 

[Qastiel]

Just killing Muhammad doesn’t necessarily completely prevent a Monotheistic religion worshipping “Allah” with significant Arabian influences from originating within the Arabian Peninsular. There was a general monotheistic current growing strength (a religiously unaffiliated group of ambiguous monotheists) and a lot of specifically Jewish/Christian/Manichaeistic influences in the region. Killing Muhammad changes a lot about Arabian Universalist Judaism and has the possibility of preventing a different religion rising in the region (could merely be a Christianity variant) but it’s not a certain thing. Other prophets could rise in the area, after all and Mecca was an important religious site before Islam.

But if we’re butterflying an Arabian Monotheistic religion rising entirely? My money is on Manichaeism. It had popular appeal and was eating away at Zoroastrianism in Iran and had a lot of almost successes OTL even with Islam China pushing it down. Alternatively a more explicitly Universalist Judaism is possible but issue is gestation region.

Universalist Judaism gets eaten by Christianity if it’s near a Christian realm before it can fully form but it gestating in Arabia just means you get a not-Islam. I think someone could create a PoD to create a version of Universalised Judaism without the Greek (Christian) or Arabian (Islamic) elements but it’d need to be really precise. It’s less likely to arise than a Arabised Christianity or something resembling Islam.

I don’t think Buddhism would be able to become a contender. Islam did a lot to damage Buddhist dominance over the subcontinent but it was already losing ground to “Hinduisms” due to the trend of Buddhist ascetic monasticism growing in prominence in India detaching Buddhist institutes from local communities and making Buddhist religious services less approachable than say paying your local Brahmin equivalent for religious services and blessings. Though perhaps without an Islamic invasion and the destruction associated with it, Buddhist institutes could have adapted.

Islam has a lot of structural factors which makes it a less aggressive proselytiser vs Christianity once it’s dominant within a realm. I wouldn’t say Islam is more tolerant per se but it ceded acknowledgement of theological merit to rivalling religions due to it being a universalist religion arising in competition with another (Christianity) universalist religion. Hence the concept of “people of the book” and Jizya. I think Christianity (or Manichaeism) would be able to spread a lot more in India compared to Islam. Manichaeism a benefit of having Indic influences since Mani was familiar with Buddhists and the Buddhist influence shows but I think it has a similar issue Islam has of being a universal religion born rivalling other developed universalist religions. Having to cede limited theological merit to rival religions once means you can do it again when politically expedient for later rulers following the religion. See Muslims originally having the concept of “people of the book” and Jizya being solely for monotheists but expanding the concept for the Pagans of Harran and then later Hindus.

I think Manichaeism can come a respectable second but Christianity would still be dominant within a no-Islam timeline.

 

[Whiteshore]

But if we’re butterflying an Arabian Monotheistic religion rising entirely? My money is on Manichaeism. It had popular appeal and was eating away at Zoroastrianism in Iran and had a lot of almost successes OTL even with Islam China pushing it down. Alternatively a more explicitly Universalist Judaism is possible but issue is gestation region.

And on that note, Manichaeism did have some selling power amongst steppe nomads with the Uyghur Khaganate, so one could easily get a scenario where Manichaean Turks end up spreading the faith through fire and bow.

 

[Silver01]

2. Manichaeism. It was clearly a widespread faith that ultimately only died out because of sustained persecution, lack of elite support (beside the Uyghur Khanate at one point), and the assimilation of its remnant followers with Buddhism. It could be a lot larger and perhaps stands a chance of becoming the state religion of Iran in a post-Sassanid era.

Both the persians, the romans and even china if it follows the Otl means that while it last longer being persecuted in most populated centers of eurasia means that it can only go so far unless we wank the uyghurs or a powerfull nomadic empire adopts it.

3. Some other gnostic-inspired sect. There were a number of them, they could all become larger and become major competitors
I really cant think of many Paulicianism in this timeline migth die an early death with the romans keeping armenia which if one belives in the theory of spreading means later on no cathars, Priscillianism by this point is dead, Mandaeism could win out in some areas

 

[Silver01]

Buddhism is too distant and declining in influence in India by the end of Late Antiquity, and I think smaller Buddhist communities would just become blended with the gnostics and similar groups (as seems to have happened OTL with those communities created by the missionaries Ashoka sent into the Hellenistic world).

imo it really depends how succesfull is the tang if something like an lushan does not occur and since there is no caliphate the tang would only have deal with the tibetans having transoxiana being under tang influnce more consistently and with more time could very well mean more of transoxiana and the turks of that area convert to it since the turkic migrations of the 10th and 11th century were in part due to climate change and hence they will not be fully butterflied away depending if the turks convert you can see buddhism spread to the southern steppe or even parts of iran if they conquer them

 

[Silver01]

Neither were the Berbers,

they were north africa was one the riches provinces and the amazigh tribes were not minor players one of the reason why the vandal war was possible and justinian went for it because years prior in 523 the vandal army was destroyed by the Laguatans and the romano berber kingdom caused much problems for byzantine africa even after its destrucion the sucessor states were consolidating and in the otl these delayed the arab conquest the most famous example was Caecilius of altava and Kahina of Aures

Slavs were quickly converting.

the slavs did not convert till the 9th century in the otl

Only the Saxons and Baltic tribes may the candidates to pull this feat off,

depending on the pod the gregorian mission is well on its way

 

[WinRar Archivist]

Depending on what happens to the Byzantines there may be a more pronounced Calchedionan versus Non-Calchedonian divide. Add to that the Orthodox-Catholic schism, an alternate Reform.

A bit reaching - but maybe Bogomilist Balkans ? Convienently placed for a few Cruciades.