Status
Not open for further replies.
I wonder if Brazil will try a Kaiserslacht before AEF comes at Mesopotamia and then pussy out and provide Peace terms to Argentina. BTW, what was the Great Summer Offensive ?
Sorta, I guess, because the “Summer Offensive” you’re referring to is what’s coming up next
The question is whether Pitchfork Ben will live long enough to see the Confederacy surrender. (As a sitting member of the CS government, does *he* get brought up for War Crimes?)

The other question that I have is will the Confederacy in 1940 be considered a continuation of the Confederacy in 1867. (As opposed to the changes from the 3rd Republic to the 4th for France, or even Russian Empire vs. USSR).

OTOH, if the US considers mistreatment of Slaves during the war to be a war crime, we could be still doing trials until 1940.
Or will he win the 1915 elections and be the President who lost the Great American War.
I’m getting close to figuring out how to stick the landing on the 1915 election (one reason I’ve been foot dragging on internal CS stuff) but it won’t be Tillman. The longevity of his power can be measured in weeks rather than months or years (all those references to the knives being out amongst Democrats were for a reason)
just a question

what does Maximilian think of the orange order?



since there the main good guy/bad guy
Doubt he gives them much of any thought tbh
Even so. The "job" of the AEF iOTL was to allow the French to win. In this case, Chile surrendering probably frees just as many Argentine soldiers as are in the AEF. The basic question is whether the Argentine government is playing for a "Tie" or playing for a "Win". (I think the only scene that we've had from the Argentine POV is some of the evacuation/Naval Battle. )
The "job" of AEF is for Argentines to atleast not lose.
This is right here. Argentina’s goal, insofar as there is one, is to keep Brazil east of the Parana and then eventually push them back across the Uruguay, and the best way to do that right now is just shell whatever comes across that river
 
Sorta, I guess, because the “Summer Offensive” you’re referring to is what’s coming up next


I’m getting close to figuring out how to stick the landing on the 1915 election (one reason I’ve been foot dragging on internal CS stuff) but it won’t be Tillman. The longevity of his power can be measured in weeks rather than months or years (all those references to the knives being out amongst Democrats were for a reason)

Doubt he gives them much of any thought tbh


This is right here. Argentina’s goal, insofar as there is one, is to keep Brazil east of the Parana and then eventually push them back across the Uruguay, and the best way to do that right now is just shell whatever comes across that river
Gotta keep flipping the seasons. :)

That's November 1915? Popcorn ready!

That's what I figured. And the AEF won't add that much to that unless they bring the *best* of what they've got in North America and that won't happen until either the end of the war, or close (defined as chasing the Confederate Government around the Country.) For example, the river boats that the US is using on the Ohio would be useful on the Parana, but they probably couldn't get there in numbers until 2 months(?) after they aren't needed in bulk in North America. By that time, the US Navy will be sinking anything that the Brazilians have that is non-riverine.

I'm still trying to figure out where the treaties ending these wars are going to be signed. For maximum fun, can we have the Treaty of Brussels. :)
 
Gotta keep flipping the seasons. :)

That's November 1915? Popcorn ready!

That's what I figured. And the AEF won't add that much to that unless they bring the *best* of what they've got in North America and that won't happen until either the end of the war, or close (defined as chasing the Confederate Government around the Country.) For example, the river boats that the US is using on the Ohio would be useful on the Parana, but they probably couldn't get there in numbers until 2 months(?) after they aren't needed in bulk in North America. By that time, the US Navy will be sinking anything that the Brazilians have that is non-riverine.

I'm still trying to figure out where the treaties ending these wars are going to be signed. For maximum fun, can we have the Treaty of Brussels. :)
I sorta know, that is, haha. But DMs are open for anyone who has ideas/wants to brainstorm because I could actually use some help on CS politics 1916-22 (after which I mostly know who the Presidents will be)
How is the front in Arkansas looking?
It's all quiet on the Arkansas front.
Basically. Not a whole lot is going on there, Arkansas is sort of weirdly sandwiched between the US positions on Crowley's Ridge around Paragould/Jonesboro that are isolated east of the Ozarks and are supportive to the actions against Memphis and providing a high, defensive position controlling that corner of the state, and also the US forces in Tulasah defending the oil infra, which threatens Fort Smith in theory but the US has not attacked via that direction. So its sort of seeing some light fighting, but not much.
 
Bleeding Heartland: The Midlands Front of the Great American War
"...Lenihan's sense that he was racing against time before Farnsworth would elect to regroup for the winter; as such, his gallant attempt to push through the Inner Line lasted a good eight days from November 29th to December 6th, and set the stage for what this newer, more savage phase of the Nashville Campaign would look like. It was also the first time that American forces had genuinely attempted what is in modern parlance known as a "combined arms offensive," or as Lenihan phrased it in his notes "strategic supportive operations," with aerial strafing and bombing by way of rudimentary aircraft built by the Curtiss-Wright Corporation in Buffalo or airships built by the Cleveland Aerial Balloon Company. The Confederacy, having experimented with aerial bombardment in their limited Philadelphia Raid earlier in the year, now got a taste of their own medicine, as the bombing balloons made their way over Nashville, released their cargo, and then floated away before return fire could be engaged. Between late November and the final breakthrough into the city in early May, a space of approximately five months, US airships and airplanes carried out a total of a hundred raids over Nashville proper as well as satellite towns such as Hendersonville, Hartsville, Lebanon, Franklin, and Murfreesboro, all behind the Inner Line, demonstrating a fearsome new era of warfare in which a defensive line did not necessarily keep all behind it safe; what these air raids did not do was very much to actually physically hinder Confederate operations, killing less than five hundred people (the majority civilian, at that) and lacking the precision to do much genuine damage. Still, the psychological effect was palpable, and a key development in the war.

The raids during Lenihan's crossing of the Cumberland got much of the immediate attention in the Confederate press, in tandem with the firing of General J. Franklin Bell from his role as head of the Army of the Midlands. The losses of Kentucky and now the Outer Line were too much to ignore - he was cashiered at the same time that his superior and successor Hugh Scott was at the ASO and replaced by Beaumont Bonaparte Buck [1], who had been in charge of several garrisons throughout the fighting so far and was thought of as a superior defensive mind. In a way, he perhaps was; Buck arrested Lenihan's advances in the west of the theater near Dickson, preventing an attempt to attack the Inner Line from the southwest, where it was thought to be weaker, while cutting off the Confederacy's rail and road approaches from Nashville to their dogged but increasingly entrapped forces west of the Tennessee River near Jackson, Paris and the near-encircled Henry-Donelson Complex.

The end of Lenihan's looping, scythe-shaped offensive from Clarksville to the south and then southeast left a number of American divisions exposed to potential counteroffensive and the Confederates entrenched in the highlands around Kingston and Ashland City, effectively closing on any further operations for the remainder of 1914. The mood in both camps was one of exhaustion, but more so on the Confederate side - a year before at this time, the Union had save for a few tiny, artillery-damaged beachheads, been entirely north of the Ohio; now they were standing at the gates of Nashville. The strategic circumstances in the Midlands had reversed badly for the Confederacy in 1914, to the point that it was an open question whether the war could be fought to a stalemate, let alone won. [2]

1915 would dramatically complicate that question further..."

- Bleeding Heartland: The Midlands Front of the Great American War

[1] The most Southern name of all time
[2] The answer, obviously, is no
 
Alliance Against America: Inside the Bloc Sud
"...Lauro Mueller himself jokingly called it "suitcase diplomacy" for he became associated in European circles with the suitcases he was frequently photographed with - the suitcases he was effectively living out of as he bounced between capitals across the continent, furiously acting as a one-man representative of the Bloc Sud in entirely. The Brazilian foreign minister was a fine advocate for his cause on his own merits as a persuasive speaker, well-liked aristocrat and canny read of people; his doggedness and aggressive travel schedule endeared him to European ministries, impressed by his stamina. Ambassadors from his fellow belligerents were of course more embedded in their missions but often of varying quality as advocates; Mueller was perhaps the dominant diplomatic figure of his age from any of the four core members of the Bloc.

Mueller's travels, recorded fastidiously in his diaries and in the notes of his contemporaries, did accomplish a fair deal - it delayed intervention by the European "Big Three" of France, Britain and Germany in the winter of 1914-15, when such a joint program to demand peace in the Americas was starting to look like it may be afoot. Mueller took advantage of his own German roots and candor to impress Berlin policymakers enough to delay any action, and Britain was loathe to move alone after the egg it had on its face following the Niagara Conference; France, for her part, was kept "onside" as a silent but overt partisan of the Bloc Sud.

This was not to say that Mueller's efforts did much more than act as a delaying tactic; German and British policymakers, and a minority of influential French diplomatic analysts, were no less skeptical that the Bloc Sud was going to emerge a victor than they had been previously, especially with combat in North America now entirely on Confederate or Mexican soil and the United States picking off northern Chilean ports one-by-one. But it did, for all of the spring of 1915, prevent pro-Axis sentiment from definitively taking hold in European capitals until after the twin disasters at Nashville and Hilton Head in May of 1915, spurring the Poincare Mission of that summer - which, ironically, now was happening at a point where Philadelphia was convinced of eventual total victory over the Confederacy and much less keen to listen to European entreaties than it would have been six months earlier. In that sense, what Mueller's "suitcase diplomacy" really accomplished was little more than hundreds of thousands more dead across the Americas than perhaps would have been slain had he stayed in Rio de Janeiro in the summer and autumn of 1914 and allowed a consensus for intervention to form at the very least in London and Berlin..."

- Alliance Against America: Inside the Bloc Sud
 
How are Bloc Sud victory AH's depicted ittl?
Good q. Probably heavily reliant on PODs where the CSA mops up the US even faster in Maryland and prevents the Covington Beachhead in the first few days, along with the Argentine Navy being annihilated at the River Plate in November 1913 or the Chilean fleet successfully taking Nicaragua or something

Other than that it starts to be difficult to see how the BS manages to pull it off without a deus ex machina like direct Euro military intervention
 
I mean Hitler wining the war was impossible.
There are Axis victory tls.
I mean yeah, sure. It also depends on what your definition of victory ATL is. It’s pretty easy to create a total Bloc Sud win in South America and negotiated peace in late 1914 in North America - that’s still a BS victory TL
 
How are Bloc Sud victory AH's depicted ittl?
"The righteous and noble Confederacy defeating the vile, degenerate, effeminate Yankee and affirming the superiority of the Southern social system". (Read in Atun-Shei's (American youtuber) Southern accent)
 
"The righteous and noble Confederacy defeating the vile, degenerate, effeminate Yankee and affirming the superiority of the Southern social system". (Read in Atun-Shei's (American youtuber) Southern accent)
I get the feeling such timelines include a heaping helping of "no, you see, the atrocities were the result of a few bad apples led by ideological nutjobs. The regular forces of the Wehrmacht...errrr, Confederate Army wasn't involved in any atrocities in any way, shape or form!"
 
I sorta know, that is, haha. But DMs are open for anyone who has ideas/wants to brainstorm because I could actually use some help on CS politics 1916-22 (after which I mostly know who the Presidents will be)


Basically. Not a whole lot is going on there, Arkansas is sort of weirdly sandwiched between the US positions on Crowley's Ridge around Paragould/Jonesboro that are isolated east of the Ozarks and are supportive to the actions against Memphis and providing a high, defensive position controlling that corner of the state, and also the US forces in Tulasah defending the oil infra, which threatens Fort Smith in theory but the US has not attacked via that direction. So its sort of seeing some light fighting, but not much.
You forgot the Confederacy conquering Branson. :)
 
I get the feeling such timelines include a heaping helping of "no, you see, the atrocities were the result of a few bad apples led by ideological nutjobs. The regular forces of the Wehrmacht...errrr, Confederate Army wasn't involved in any atrocities in any way, shape or form!"
Baltimore and Washington DC were abolitionist psyops by (Booker T. Washington/WEB Du Bois/other notable early 20th century black person and their puppets Hearst and/or Hughes).
 
Good q. Probably heavily reliant on PODs where the CSA mops up the US even faster in Maryland and prevents the Covington Beachhead in the first few days, along with the Argentine Navy being annihilated at the River Plate in November 1913 or the Chilean fleet successfully taking Nicaragua or something

Other than that it starts to be difficult to see how the BS manages to pull it off without a deus ex machina like direct Euro military intervention

Coming off this - I wonder what the Confederates gain in their victory terms in these ATL. The Confederate government has been a bit mum on what they hoped to gain from this debacle in the first place, save the initial list of demands after the fall of DC.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top