AHC: have a West Germany develop it's own nuclear weapons during the Cold War.
- Thread starter Ferreti
- Start date
The entire German armed forces being officered by Frenchmen, with no German allowed to reach commissioned rank? Even in OTL the French tactical nuclear force was aimed at West Germany - it's very hard indeed to see them not freaking out at nuclear weapons under full* German control!
* Yes I know they accepted US weapons being delivered by German crews - but there at least the US had a veto on their use, and the weapons were under US control in peacetime.
* Yes I know they accepted US weapons being delivered by German crews - but there at least the US had a veto on their use, and the weapons were under US control in peacetime.
Easy. France goes Communist after WW2 for at least a decade or two. The entire politics of the early Cold War changes as West Germany doesn't have to tip toe around the issue of re-armament to make mainly France happy.
There are other ways, but they involve changes to the very end of WW2, a chillier early Cold War along with Churchill getting back in power sooner and a change in government in France that isn't Communist, but doesn't want to play ball with Britain or the U.S. in any NATO concept either.
There are other ways, but they involve changes to the very end of WW2, a chillier early Cold War along with Churchill getting back in power sooner and a change in government in France that isn't Communist, but doesn't want to play ball with Britain or the U.S. in any NATO concept either.
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Those weapons were aimed at West Germany, yet not against West Germany. The idea was to obliterate Warsaw pact troops invading Germany. The British had a similar idea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Peacock), and even the German military and government later participated in planning such a scheme, apparently stopped by Helmut Schmidt. It's only natural to assume that US and British tactical nukes were aimed at Western Germany in case of a Soviet Invasion. And if West Germany had tactical nukes, they would have aimed some of them at the Fulda gap.
To conclude, the fact that France aimed nuclear weapons at Germany is not a sign for French anti-German feelings.
Doesn't that quickly lead to a communist Germany ?
How did Germany hold out without US/GB/Fr support ? Doesn't it get blockaded instead of Berlin and simply fall or accept terms? and even if it stays neutral why would the USSR/WP accept Germany building nuclear weapons don't a few tanks roll to the border and demand it stops developing them?
A fact of which the German government was fully aware... they still didn't like the prospect of nuclear weapons initiating within their borders. And doing it themselves would be even less palatable. Any German nuclear weapons need to be aimed at some point east of the Oder to be politically acceptable.
Um... How?
The French Occupation zone is in the SE. At the very least you can ship in supplies and what not from the north sea ports and Holland/Belgium. Any attempt by the French to blockade Germany is going to be quickly swept aside by the Royal Navy and the United States Navy, either of which is so much larger then any potential force the French could assemble for a Blockade it's actually quite sad.
My thought that if France (and its zone) falls the remainder of WG isn't really viable early on and if US/GB are not willing to stop France falling to communism then they will not stop the fall of WG soon after?
My thoughts are that USSR/PRF simply move troops through WG (they are allowed by the treaty to do so from Franch zone to East G and Berlin) at some point they help some local red factions against the 'Fascist' and WG falls. Yes US/GB could stop it by going to war but if they have let France fall early on they in a much worse situation than OTL.
My thoughts are that USSR/PRF simply move troops through WG (they are allowed by the treaty to do so from Franch zone to East G and Berlin) at some point they help some local red factions against the 'Fascist' and WG falls. Yes US/GB could stop it by going to war but if they have let France fall early on they in a much worse situation than OTL.
ASB. If Germany had ever engaged a military nuclear program, it would have been forced to give it up by all the former allies of WW2, being unanimous once again.
Even today, such and move would bring the dissolution of NATO and EU.
Yah no, everyone even in 1950 didn't see Germany that way.
If Germany went nuclear today it would be one day page A16 news in the US. Only a very few loud people are stuck with Germans equal mad Nazis notion.
To have Germany get nukes in the 50s you just need a greater impetus and a bigger threat from the USSR and France siding with Stalin would do it.
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Would the USSR really 5 years after WWII and 9 since Operation Barbarossa be willing to allow Germany to get nuclear weapons ? (come to think of it would GB 10 years after BoB really be willing to risk it?)
Yes WG could have gone against the wishes of the USSR, but it cant go against the wishes of of everybody USSR/GB/FR... (and potentially USA not to mention all of Europe's smaller nations)
Remember that even in 1990 Thatcher etc still didn't really want German reunification, early in the cold war in the 50s the attitude to Germany would probably be far worse?
Remember that even in 1990 Thatcher etc still didn't really want German reunification, early in the cold war in the 50s the attitude to Germany would probably be far worse?
You know that Germany got into the shared nuke program? And I cant remember a big fight over it.
Really, the challenge is not that hard to fulfil. Make France and GB seem weaker, the SU more dangerous and a West German nuke start to looks a good idea.
marathag
Banned
I'm sure deGaulle would shed a tiny tear at being able to get the twofer of nuking Soviets on German soil
Germany was not a sovereign country on military matters. That was the condition imposed by western powers when they (and first of all the US) decided to restore a german army.
What had been decided then was that the US nuclear umbrella would take Germany in charge.
There is no way the US will let Germany build its own nukes. This is just the basics of diplomacy.
So yes. Definitly ASB.
You will find plenty of proofs for French Anti-German feelings. But aiming tactical nukes on Germany is not one of them. Even German governments promoted that.
Delta Force
Banned
Dr. Friedrich Bassler of the FRG proposed using peaceful nuclear explosions to excavate the Qattara Depression Project in the 1960s and 1970s. Peaceful nuclear explosives are allowed under the Nuclear-Non Proliferation Treaty, although the distinction between them is essentially just in declared role.