Your challenge is is to have a post WW2 Germany that, in the year 2013, must have the exact same borders as the Weimar Republic had. You can decide yourself what to do with Danzig and Saarland, they may end up in Germany or may not. You can do anything in the cold war to make it it happen, but it must not be ASB. The later the POD, the better.
AHC: Germany with Weimar borders
- Thread starter Opunium
- Start date
To be honest I think it's very close to ASB for Germany to have those borders with a PoD AFTER WWII, especially given that the whole of the Western World basically wanted to dismantle Germany and that the areas outside modern Germanys borders that are being talked about were very quickly cleansed of ethnic Germans via forced deportation.
The Western Allies refuse to vacate parts of Germany assigned to the Soviet occupation zone, while Stalin undermines the four powers Berlin division. As early as 1946, Germany is increasingly divided between east and west. Stalin, knowing the GDR is unviable without Silesian coal deposits, allows Silesia and Pomerania to be repopulated by refugees.
In 1949, the Federal Republic of Germany is formed, including Saxony, Thuringia, and Saxony Anhalt. Shortly afterwards, the GDR is formed including all of Berlin, Silesia, and Pomerania. All of Upper Silesia is annexed into Poland.
East Prussia is made an ASSR within the Lithuanian SSR; Stalin stages a referendum giving this popular legitimacy. The Polish parts of southern East Prussia are annexed into Poland. Also, the German population deported to Siberia are re-deported to East Prussia. Danzig is annexed into the East Prussian ASSR to more tightly monitor Polish seaward trade. However, East Prussia is intentionally kept deindustrialized with low levels of education; ironically Stalin allows the Lutheran Church (infiltrated by NKVD) to retain its influence to keep East Prussians superstitious.
During the Khrushchev thaw, riots erupt as East Prussians demand their own SSR. The riots are crushed by the Soviet and Polish Army, claiming the rioters are fascist agitators. Rioters not sent to Siberia are sent to West Germany.
The GDR government collapses in 1989. It is swiftly annexed into the Federal Republic within a year. East Prussia remains under Soviet rule.
During the USSR"s final months, violence between Germans and Lithuanians erupt, played up by the KGB to force a crackdown. The East Prussian ASSR declares independence from the Lithuanian SSR. Although officially disowned by the German government, private German assistance flows in.
The Soviet Union collapses. Desperate to avoid war, Germany brokers a deal where East Prussia holds a referendum on its future while Lithuania receives generous financial assistance. East Prussians narrowly choose annexation to Germany over independence. To allay fears of German militarism, Kohl promises to permanently declare East Prussia demilitarized. The Danzig corridor issue is solved by a transit treaty with Poland. When Poland joins the EU, the issue becomes irrelevant.
There. I solved the challenge.
In 1949, the Federal Republic of Germany is formed, including Saxony, Thuringia, and Saxony Anhalt. Shortly afterwards, the GDR is formed including all of Berlin, Silesia, and Pomerania. All of Upper Silesia is annexed into Poland.
East Prussia is made an ASSR within the Lithuanian SSR; Stalin stages a referendum giving this popular legitimacy. The Polish parts of southern East Prussia are annexed into Poland. Also, the German population deported to Siberia are re-deported to East Prussia. Danzig is annexed into the East Prussian ASSR to more tightly monitor Polish seaward trade. However, East Prussia is intentionally kept deindustrialized with low levels of education; ironically Stalin allows the Lutheran Church (infiltrated by NKVD) to retain its influence to keep East Prussians superstitious.
During the Khrushchev thaw, riots erupt as East Prussians demand their own SSR. The riots are crushed by the Soviet and Polish Army, claiming the rioters are fascist agitators. Rioters not sent to Siberia are sent to West Germany.
The GDR government collapses in 1989. It is swiftly annexed into the Federal Republic within a year. East Prussia remains under Soviet rule.
During the USSR"s final months, violence between Germans and Lithuanians erupt, played up by the KGB to force a crackdown. The East Prussian ASSR declares independence from the Lithuanian SSR. Although officially disowned by the German government, private German assistance flows in.
The Soviet Union collapses. Desperate to avoid war, Germany brokers a deal where East Prussia holds a referendum on its future while Lithuania receives generous financial assistance. East Prussians narrowly choose annexation to Germany over independence. To allay fears of German militarism, Kohl promises to permanently declare East Prussia demilitarized. The Danzig corridor issue is solved by a transit treaty with Poland. When Poland joins the EU, the issue becomes irrelevant.
There. I solved the challenge.
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I could, in theory, see a larger Germany, if the Soviets do worse during WWII, so they have a smaller territory of Germany assigned to them. Or maybe another major power occupies part of Germany.
So for example this scenario: after the fall of France, France does not surrender, but flees toward Northern Africa and forms a France in exile. They continue to fight the Germans from their colonies, kicking the Italians out of Africa. Germany still attacks the Soviet Union. America still enters the war. The French, British and Americans attack the European main land, while the Soviet-Union slowly pushes the Germans back. Because of the additional French troops (and the support from the French colonies), the allies do better than OTL and manage to meet the Soviets east of OTL. As the French were a major part of the allies they get their own occupation zone (instead of part of the British and American zones). Because of this the Soviet zone is smaller, so Pomerania and Silesia remain part of their occupation zone and aren't given to Poland and become part of the GDR later. Poland only get Danzig and part of East Prussia, while the Soviet union annexes the rest.
I don't think it is possible to safe East Prussia or at least very hard. Maybe, maybe, if the Soviet union does not get involved.
So for example this scenario: after the fall of France, France does not surrender, but flees toward Northern Africa and forms a France in exile. They continue to fight the Germans from their colonies, kicking the Italians out of Africa. Germany still attacks the Soviet Union. America still enters the war. The French, British and Americans attack the European main land, while the Soviet-Union slowly pushes the Germans back. Because of the additional French troops (and the support from the French colonies), the allies do better than OTL and manage to meet the Soviets east of OTL. As the French were a major part of the allies they get their own occupation zone (instead of part of the British and American zones). Because of this the Soviet zone is smaller, so Pomerania and Silesia remain part of their occupation zone and aren't given to Poland and become part of the GDR later. Poland only get Danzig and part of East Prussia, while the Soviet union annexes the rest.
I don't think it is possible to safe East Prussia or at least very hard. Maybe, maybe, if the Soviet union does not get involved.
Could the W-allies push the German so far back the Soviet union doesnt get any occupation of Germany at all? (Only East Prussia, so they create some German-Prussian SSR?)
Only with a successful coup by the German army against Hitler.
But a Prussian SSR can be created within the OTL,Poland is not compensated for the eastern territories,or is less compassed.East Prussia becomes the Prussian SSR,and the rest are put in the future GDR.And for the POD Stalin changes his mind about compensating Poland,As for reason(s) he hates the poles more and/or he decide that is not worth the trouble to move the Germans out,just to have the poles come in and/or a weaker Poland and A stronger GDR is a bigger USSR advantage and/or he decides that GDR must be stronger,and since is hard to get the allies to give more of there territory to the soviets,Poland doesn't get Pomerania and Silesia.
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