Well, since actual fascism is only limited to Italy and its sphere ITTL, maybe they would go Statist instead, inspired by the Japanese Showa Statism.
8mm to the Left: If Hitler Died in 1923
- Thread starter KaiserKatze
- Start date
So basically full independence will only occur if things go very bad?
Makes sense, especially if indies nationalism (and Dutch is used as the language of administration much like India) works out instead. It would be very cool if we get pockets of white ppl in the cities at least.
That could work too. In reality it's probably going to be something unto itself, just very nationalistic, anti-chinese and pro-muslim. I see Malayan nationalism taking from both statism and fascism, and stuff that is special to the Malayans. For example the Qur'an being translated to malay would be interesting.
Last edited:
14 - Alone Came a Spider
8mm to the Left: A World Without Hitler
"I still have nightmares about the day the men in blue came to our house… it was Summer, and I’d just gotten home from playing with my friends. I hadn’t even changed out of my short pants for dinner, yet. My father got up to answer the door… I remember yelling. My mother told me to hide, but I didn’t understand, thought it was a game. They came into the house and took her, too, and then me. That was the last time I ever saw my father, and I wouldn’t see my mother again for a very long time.” - Uwe Meyer, the son of one of the many Communists eliminated by the VoSiSt following 1932
Along Came a Spider
April 7th, 1935 saw the creation of the Free Rhenish State under the executive directive of President von Lettow-Vorbeck and Chancellor Adenauer. The move came mere days after back-to-back announcements out of Belgium, officially ceding Eupen and Malmedy to Germany, and Bavaria, celebrating the return of their ancient rights. The reason for the latter became quickly apparent when Bavaria announced their relinquishment of their own territory in the Rhineland and its union with the new state.
The combination of these events proved predictably overwhelming for the public, for whom the return of more lost territory as well as the formation of a new Free State far outweighed whatever legal jargon the Bavarians were babbling about. This was intentional, as it was hoped that diverting the focus from these privileges would keep the other states formerly possessing such privileges from asking for them back.
Even more distraction came in the form of the drama which erupted on the 8th of the same month when the Prussian Parliament unequivocally refused to cede their own holdings in the Rhineland to this new state, going so far as to decry the declaration as an infringement on the authority of the Reichstag to weigh in on such decisions. Though arguably true, it did not win Braun’s government any supporters in the Rhineland, and only furthered swirled talk of his party’s attempts to build a more centralised state opposite the federalism which von Lettow-Vorbeck openly favoured.
France was outraged at the audacity of Germany to so blatantly pursue alterations of their Western border, especially with the Locarno Treaties of 1925 having guaranteed Germany’s Western border opposite Belgium and France, but Germany countered this by arguing the land transfer as a flat purchase which in no way violated the aforementioned Treaties (which focused more prominently on Germany not taking the territory by demand or conquest). The fact that Belgium was largely apathetic to the territorial loss did not aid French claims, and when they failed to garner international support in opposition to German actions, the matter was dropped. It certainly did Franco-Belgian relations no favours, and the plans for the extension of the defensive Maginot Line along the Franco-Belgian border lost many of its opponents in Paris.
The border revision was tremendously popular with the German people; however, despite popular hopes, no further border alterations were sought in the weeks or months after. The annexation of two territories—minor though they were—was unsettling enough for Germany’s neighbours that President von Lettow-Vorbeck forbade talk of further border alterations for the rest of the year. With the Western border secured (the return of Alsace and Lorraine was seen as impractically optimistic and not worth actively pursuing at present) it opened up the possibility for German attention to slowly turn East.
The German ambassador to Czechoslovakia, Walter Koch, had requested permission to leave his post and retire, and this opened up a unique opportunity for President von Lettow-Vorbeck to appoint a loyalist to the position. Though he had no immediate designs on the Czech state, and in fact would much prefer their diplomatic alignment to anything more aggressive, he did not wholly rule out the possibility of using the enormous German minority within the state to try and force German designs. Likewise, the appointment of the rather prestigious position granted him the chance to reward a former supporter, one whose political fortunes had vastly decreased in recent years.
Oskar von Hindenburg was caught between giddiness and anxiety as he made his way down Unter den Linden, the diplomatic documents he’d been given to fulfil his new role as German Ambassador to Czechoslovakia tucked into the slim folder inside of his jacket. He needed a stiff drink to calm his nerves and then the first thing he planned to do was to inform his family; his wife Margarete likely wouldn’t be terribly happy with this appointment, seeing as it would force them to move abroad for at least a few years, but Prague was a beautiful city, and there were enough German-speakers to keep it from being too overwhelming.
His feet led him a few blocks away from the main Berlin thoroughfare, to a small corner bar in an upper-class and quiet residential area. It had been a favourite drinking spot for his father and, later, for him as well. Upon entering he crossed to the bar and ordered a beer, which the barkeep soon placed in front of him.
Von Hindenburg was immensely grateful to the president for granting him the chance to prove himself after the blunder of the Osthilfeskandal and he would do his absolute best to not screw it up. It was his job, he had been informed in no uncertain terms, to keep the Czechs in a state of compliant worry. Prague needed to retain a healthy concern of Germany while also not becoming properly fearful, less they conspire with Germany’s enemies. In the same stroke, he needed to make it clear that Germany was interested in a positive relationship, at least as long as Prague made no untoward actions against the Sudeten Germans. After all, Germany had not revoked their claims on the region, and the loss of the borderlands would harm the Czechs far more than the loss of Eupen and Malmedy had hurt the Belgians.
A glance at the paper splayed out on the bartop showed him that the press continued to rave about von Lettow-Vorbeck’s recent successes with no apparent sign of stopping. Catching the barkeeper’s eye, he nodded at it. “What do you think of the president’s latest achievement?”
The barkeep, a balding, heavyset man around von Hindenburg’s age, grunted an impressed sort of sound and said, “He’s done more in the last few months than anyone else in the last ten years. Still, it’s just some worthless land on the Rhine, isn’t it?”
“And the chance to rebuild our army,” von Hindenburg pointed out, sipping his beer and wiping the foam from his lips.
“My boy was ecstatic. Ran right off to try and enlist, even though he’s underage.” The man shook his head, though there was a fondness to his tone as he said, “Damn fool boy will be the death of me.”
Von Hindenburg, whose own son was not even ten and cared for almost exclusively by his wife, had nothing to add and so changed the topic. “It opens up a useful precedent for restoring Prussia’s lands to the East, does it not?”
The man shrugged. “I suppose. Doesn’t affect me much, though, does it?”
“You don’t wish to see German greatness restored?”
The man’s eyes flickered over von Hindenburg for a moment, assessing him. “I lost my brother in the Great War,” he declared at last. “I don’t want to lose my son over some damn land on the Baltic.”
Von Hindenburg decided not to push the matter further. He was dressed in a suit rather than the military garb he favoured, and that was probably the only reason that he had earned such honesty, even if it chafed to hear such pacifistic (and, in his opinion, anti-German) opinions. His own son was just a child, but he could not envision anything other than pride for the boy joining the army and fighting to protect the Fatherland!
The barkeep seemed to sense the reaction his words had garnered because he soon excused himself and began cleaning at the other end of the room, which von Hindenburg was just fine with. The place was almost completely empty with the exception of the two of them, the only others being a pair of old men in the back corner conversing in some Southern dialect. Von Hindenburg took another swig of his beer and wondered if and how the fighting spirit of the German man could be restored from the rot inflicted by democracy.
“Mind if I join you?”
Von Hindenburg was surprised at how unsurprised he was when Hermann Göring slid into the seat beside him. It had become an open secret within the upper circles of German politics that Göring sat like a spider at the centre of a web of political connections and secrets, all linked by the VoSiSt agency which had only continued to grow larger and more powerful since its creation. There were rumours of him recruiting many of his allies from the noble classes whose power had waned since the end of the monarchy, paying them with money or favours to collect secrets against leading politicians. It could not be corroborated, of course, and von Hindenburg personally did not believe these rumours to hold much weight—he could not imagine von Lettow-Vorbeck or Adenauer allowing such a thing—but they still made him wonder. After all, how else could Göring have known to find von Hindenburg here, now?
“Your father frequented this place,” Göring provided as an explanation. The barkeep hurried over to take his order and soon he had a whiskey placed in front of him. “I heard about your promotion. Congratulations are in order.” He lifted the glass in a makeshift toast.
“Yes, well, I have the president to thank for giving me a second chance.”
“Nonsense!” Göring exclaimed, clapping him on the shoulder. “You come from a long and distinguished line of important men. One hiccup does not break such a mighty chain.”
“I suppose,” von Hindenburg admitted.
“Your father also took part, and you do not think less of him for it, do you? It was hardly the grand scandal the media made it out to be. A slight misjudgement, at best.”
The words perked von Hindenburg up slightly. It was true, this had not affected his own view of his father, and why should it? Support for the landed nobility was a long and storied tradition within Prussia, and the fact that the weaklings currently running things did not understand it said more about them than it did about himself and his father.
“In fact, it was for this reason that I wanted to speak to you. As the new ambassador to Czechoslovakia, you will be in a unique position to aid the Reich and its people. Have you heard the name Konrad Henlein before?”
“I cannot say that I have. Who is he?”
“He is the head of the Sudetendeutsche Partei, a movement of Sudeten Germans opposing their place within the Czechoslovak state. He will approach you shortly after your arrival in Prague.”
Von Hindenburg’s brow furrowed. As far as he had been made aware, it was not in Berlin’s current interests to support Sudetenland secessionism, not when they already had enough to deal with in regards to the reintegration of the Saar territory and Eupen-Malmedy. He voiced this to Göring, who shook his head.
“While it is true that pursuit of our Eastern claims is not currently feasible, there will come a time when the global situation changes. How should I put this… if we do nothing, there is a danger of the Czechs snuffing out the fires of German nationalism by answering their appeals to autonomy. This cannot be allowed to happen. If we lack the support of the Sudetenlanders, any future attempt to seize it will fail.”
The other man blinked, surprised and a bit confused at what he was being told. “You do not want the Sudetenland to gain autonomy?”
“I want the Sudetenland to become German. Autonomy is a thin veneer for assimilation; convince the people of their equality and watch them slowly abandon their ancestral language and culture because it is easier. Give them a rope and watch them hang themselves with it.”
Von Hindenburg took another sip of his beer and considered the argument. There was definitely merit to the proposal, though he questioned if such matters really fell under his purview as ambassador. “What will this Henlein expect from me?”
“Tacit support, nothing more,” Göring was quick to say, sensing von Hindenburg’s reservations. “This is not an attempted coup of the Czech government or anything so extreme. I would just like for you to keep in contact with our Sudeten friends. Keep them informed on any motions which the government in Prague might make which could compromise our shared goals.”
The word ‘espionage’ flitted through von Hindenburg’s mind but he dismissed it quickly. He was well within his rights to discuss concerns with relevant citizens, was he not? And it was not as though he would be in danger; his ambassadorship granted him diplomatic immunity, the breach of which would mark an act of war. In fact, when he considered it from that angle, he was the ideal candidate for such an approach.
“Very well, Herr Göring, I will do as you ask,” he said finally. The other man’s smile was wide and pleased, his teeth seeming to flash in the low light.
“Cheers to that,” the man declared, downing his whiskey and slamming the glass back down. “To a Greater Germany,” he vowed, “the rightful ruler of Europe.”
One of the most popular children’s games during the latter half of the 20th Century in Germany was a game called Vorsicht! (Caution!). The game functioned as a sort of treasure hunt, with one team hiding a handful of items and the other team attempting to find them. The challenge came from the question element, with the team which hid the items having to provide a clue to each item’s location and the team which searched having to solve them. Whichever team got more points—either finding more of the hidden things or successfully stumping their opponents with their riddle—won the game.
Though no evidence exists to support it, it is a common assumption that this game emerged as an answer to the growth of espionage and blackmail in Europe during the 1930’s and 40’s, especially that of the Volkssicherheitsstab, or VoSiSt, in the German Republic. The name of the game, “Vorsicht”, is often seen as a child’s bastardisation of the organisation’s name.
Initially envisioned as a branch of the domestic security agency focused on tackling threats to the state, it would not take long for VoSiSt to balloon far beyond what many expected of it, led in every step by Hermann Göring. Göring’s military service and ties to the nobility and industrialists had made him a powerful influence within von Lettow-Vorbeck’s campaign and, once he was placed in a position of power, they opened up doors to him in every facet of German society.
Volkssicherheitsstab logo
The early days of the Weimar Republic had been a time of rampant violence and danger, with assassinations and street brawls contributing heavily to the image of instability which would plague the regime even decades after it was brought to an end. Von Lettow-Vorbeck had made use of this instability in his rise, his famous fight against the Communist protests a staple of the popular narrative, but he was also deeply conscious of how easily those same forces could be turned against him, and so when Göring came to him with the offer to expand the powers of the VoSiSt to begin tackling not only emergent threats, but potential ones as well, von Lettow-Vorbeck was quick to agree.
Under Göring’s careful watch, the VoSiSt would be expanded inch by inch, each time with a justifiable reason. In response to the initial wave of Communist bans and arrests, the VoSiSt took over the tracking and observation of suspected dissenters, including intercepting mail and keeping an eye on their friends and family. After several fled into neighbouring countries, Göring began sending agents abroad, establishing offices in cities like Paris and Prague. This, of course, required individuals with an intricate understanding of local language and customs, and soon the undesirables of those same countries were being turned into weapons in Göring’s ever-expanding arsenal. By the late-1930's the mere sight of the blue-jacketed men was enough to bring silence to a room and incite fear into the hearts of those who held opinions contrary to the standard government narrative.
A significant minority of VoSiSt’s foreign agents were drawn from the so-called Auslandsdeutsche (Foreign Germans) across Europe. The spread of German settlement in the mediaeval era had left German minorities scattered across every European nation, and under the economic turmoil of the Great Depression these minority communities were often the ones most affected. It was not hard to find individuals resentful of their government and their commonly bi- or trilingual nature made them perfect for the German intelligence service.
Ethnic Germans Across Central Europe (Green), with borders in black, 1934
(https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1937_linguistic_map_of_Central_Europe-EN.svg)
It was these German communities abroad which Göring put particular emphasis on, often attributed to his pan-German beliefs which advocated for Germany’s direct control over all German-speaking lands adjacent to the Reich. An opponent of democracy, Göring nevertheless saw the idea of natural self-determination as a useful tool with which to overturn the Treaty of Versailles and bring the Auslandsdeutsche back into the fold, an idea which was seemingly validated with the return of the Saar territory in 1935. It was his belief that a sufficient skewing of popular opinion in the German-speaking regions like Alsace and the Sudetenland was a prerequisite to reclaiming any of these regions, and blamed the loss of Upper Silesia in 1920 on an insufficient intelligence network capable of foiling Polish interference in the plebiscite.
For Göring, the notion of autonomy was anathema to the idea of a healthy nation-state, and it was the obligation of the state to assimilate or expel foreign influence just as much as it was the work of the human body to eject harmful viruses and bacteria. This notion applied just as much to other nations as his own, leaving a cynical disbelief in the idea of peaceful coexistence and resulting in his conclusion that cultural autonomy was only a veil to disguise assimilation, and therefore to be avoided at all costs.
This approach played an enormous role in the VoSiSt’s interactions with the German communities abroad, most notably the Sudetenland and Alsace-Lorraine. For the former, scare tactics aimed at the government in Prague were enough to keep the Sudeten Germans unwilling to fully collaborate, the economic troubles and employment of the Great Depression brought up frequently to discredit the Czechoslovak state, despite many of these issues having resolved themselves by 1935. For the latter, the matter was more complicated, as despite the German-speaking majority in the former territory of Alsace-Lorraine, there was no great love lost between the Alsatians and Berlin, and thus Göring was forced to take a far more delicate approach than he did in other places.
There were few who were able to step foot in Strasbourg and not be stunned at its beauty, and today was certainly no exception. The sun was close to setting, the last rays of golden light catching on the solitary steeple of the Strasbourg Cathedral, the air filled with the smell of the flowers which bloomed in window boxes and along the bridges crossing the river at intervals. Down the road two young women only a few years younger than him were discussing their plans, the sound of their Alsatian a comforting thrum which fit perfectly into the setting.
Hermann Bickler tipped his hat at the duo as he passed, offering and receiving a short greeting before he continued onwards. He lacked the time to dally, much as he would enjoy a coffee and Flammkuchen at his favourite restaurant; there were important topics to be discussed and his presence was vital.
Hermann Bickler
(https://archives.strasbourg.eu/ark:...nter=1097.500,-1557.000&zoom=7&rotation=0.000)
The directions scrawled on a scrap of paper led him to a house in the Neustadt, the city quarter built under Imperial German rule and entirely composed of tall, modern buildings styled like the architecture in Berlin. Upon arrival he knocked twice, and it was only a matter of minutes before the door swung open.
Paul Schall peered at him through his thick round glasses, recognising him immediately but holding the door as though prepared to swing it shut on him. “Who is calling?”
Paul Schall
(https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Schall#/media/Datei:Paul_Schall.jpg)
“Oh, enough with that nonsense,” Bickler snapped, shoving his way past and into the house. An irritated huff came from behind him as Schall closed and locked the door, though Bickler ignored it. “Where is he?” he asked.
“In the—” Schall began, but Bickler had already noticed the figure around the corner and headed off in that direction before the other man could finish.
Jean-Pierre Mourer was working on what seemed to be a late dinner as Bickler entered, and he did not deign to look up until he had finished cutting and eating a piece of the grilled chicken on the plate in front of him. Once he did so, he took the time to wipe his mouth and re-fold his napkin before speaking. “Either you arrive annoying early or frustratingly late, I truly cannot decide which I find more detestable.”
Jean-Pierre Mourer
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Pierre_Mourer#/media/File:Jean-Pierre_Mourer.jpg)
Bickler scowled, hating Mourer’s tendency for talking down to him like an errant schoolboy, a consequence of their relative ages. “Apologies, Monsieur Mourer,” he retorted snidely, intentionally using the French honorific, knowing how much Mourer disliked his own French-sounding name. “Next time I will sit on your front porch until the clock chimes.”
Mourer ignored the dig. “Do you have the letter?”
Bickler sighed but nodded, withdrawing it from his jacket. “Directly from Berlin.”
Mourer wiped the grease from his knife and slid it across the top of the envelope, breaking the seal. He pulled out the letter and quickly skimmed it, expression unchanging.
“Well?” Bickler prompted. Behind him, he could hear Schall arriving in the dining room.
Mourer shook his head, re-folding the letter and placing it on the table beside his cutlery. “The Germans are being obtuse again,” he said with a sigh.
“Another offer?” Schall spoke up.
Bickler turned to the smaller man in surprise. “Another? You mean this isn’t the first?”
Mourer shot Schall a look that communicated his exasperation with the slip-up. Schall flushed and left the room. “Yes,” he said at last. “This is the third one in the past few months.”
“Then why did they send it with me?”
“I wager they felt that you would ensure I get it and that it would not be lost in transit. That Göring fellow really does not comprehend the meaning of the word ‘no’.”
Bickler’s fingers itched to grab the letter and read it, but he held himself back. “What sort of offers?”
“Support against Paris in the event of an uprising, promises of autonomy within the Reich, that sort of thing,” Mourer said breezily, once more cleaning his knife before returning to his food.
Bickler eyed Mourer with no small amount of confusion. Despite their political views not aligning—Mourer being the head of the Alsatian Workers and Peasants Party, a movement with a large Communist element, and Bickler supporting the more Conservative Catholic parties under Karl Roos—both of them were members of the Unabhängige Landespartei für Elsaß-Lothringen (Independent Regional Party for Alsace-Lorraine) and advocates of an autonomous or independent German-speaking Alsatian state. German support for this seemed logical, at least to him. “Why wouldn’t you want to accept that?”
“For all my distaste with the French system, I have equally little love for the Prussian boot,” Mourer declared succinctly. “As a Reichsland within the German Empire, Alsace was little more than a colony for Prussia. The French, for all their faults, have shown a willingness to compromise that I cannot expect of the Germans.”
“But von Lettow-Vorbeck isn’t the typical Prussian! He gave the Rhinelanders their own state!”
Mourer’s eyebrow cranked up. “You call that sad little thing a Rhenish state?”
“Well the Prussians—”
“Von Lettow-Vorbeck is a Prussian himself,” Mourer interrupted. “How do we know that the refusal to break Prussian hegemony is not a product of his own nationalistic fervour? What’s more, even if it were true, what good would it do us now? The German army is a pale reflection of its might in the Great War, and even then it was unable to protect Alsace, much less now, caged in as we are behind the mighty Maginot. No.” He shook his head and looked down at his food. “I will not throw us into the fire over such a worthless endeavour.”
Bickler tried to think of a good counter to this but came up with nothing. Mourer’s own party held many of the Communists who’d fled von Lettow-Vorbeck’s purges; it was logical that he would hold an instinctive bias against the man, illogical though it might be. As far as Bickler was concerned, von Lettow-Vorbeck was a man willing to negotiate and compromise. He sought to grant the Rhinelanders their own state in exchange for their support; surely, Bickler felt, he would grant Alsace their own in exchange for union with Germany?
“You were just a boy during the Great War, so you did not experience the hell which was the Western Front,” Schall spoke suddenly from the doorway, drawing the gazes of the other two. “Do not court war where it does not exist.”
“I will not stand aside while the French eradicate our culture,” Bickler countered.
“Go home, child,” Mourer said, his voice tinged with anger now. “You have no place in this struggle. You know nothing of the trials we faced before you were even born.”
“I am Alsatian, too!”
“You do not even know what that means, and until you do, you will never understand what is being asked of us here.” Mourer shook his head. “You have no idea, no idea the kind of demons you seek to barter with. I would rather see Alsace fade into obscurity than see her destroyed by the guns of war.” He pointed to the door. “Now leave.”
Bickler did, though the cool evening air outside did little to calm the fire in his blood. He looked up and down the street, taking in the grandiose German-style buildings. Perhaps, if Mourer was so opposed to it, this Göring might be looking for someone new to lead Alsace, and Bickler could be just that man.
With Alsace and the Sudetenland in mind, what interactions will the regime have with the Baltic Germans ITTL and all that?
Well, East Indies would get their independence peacefully if anyone in the left of Colijn or Mussert leads the Dutch government. It's only a matter of when.
And considering Van Mook's economic plan OTL is to make the industrialists helping the peasants (so much that the reactionary Vaderlandische Club often protested his decision when leading the Directory of Economic Affairs), i can see a future stronger community bond in the Indies than OTL, with Indonesian actually used as the working language.
Yupper. And in the Indonesians' side, we can have Raden Soepomo invented Indonesian Statism, and Daud Beureuh would impose Aceh Statism should he actually govern Aceh with the help of the Japanese.
On the other hand, i can't see Soekarno or Thamrin working together with Japan as both actually supported the Dutch against Germany OTL and also secretly supporting Dutch against Japan according to their letters to the Indies government. Only when the Japanese has a complete victory over the Indies, and he, his family, and Mohammad Hatta was put at the gunpoint only then Soekarno is willing to work with the Japanese.
Interesting. So Göring becomes a German version of J. Edna Hoover it seems? A fairly frightening thought
An apt comparison, and indeed frightening, especially since, much like Hoover, Göring can take advantage of political instability and general global distraction to amass his power until he has become a bloated tumour nearly impossible to remove without taking down everyone else with him
Oh well, i think knowing Göring, Soerabaja Wally would have a far more extensive reach than OTL then....
And "The German Connection" conspiracy would actually has a basis unlike the OTL Sarekat Islam in 1914-1917 (the Dutch are worried that Oemar Said Tjokroaminoto was communicating with the Germans through the Ottomans to instigate a Central Powers-backed jihad/revolution) and the OTL 1938-9 Scandal (NSB-Oost Indië pushed the investigation to target as many Dutch reformists and German non-Nazis as possible as a last-ditch attempt to regain popularity after adopting the Nuremberg Laws).
Last edited:
Especially as both know each other here from the Beer Hall Putsch with how Hewel, like Goering, was part of said coup attempt.
Germany IRL was pretty poor at espionage, so I wanted to take a crack at changing that
Speaking of espionage, what role would Canaris be having in future events here and the Reichsmarine?
I am really on the fence on that matter, as he does bring some experience, but I am also not sure if Göring would allow him into his domain
The Moluccas I get and whilst I had not directly heard of it I understand it. But the northern part of Celebes? That's new to me. Could you give me something to read on this?
An Indo who fought for the Boers in the Second Boer War? Wow, quite a character
Spot on, my thoughts exactly
Because each time some Islamic law is passed in Indonesia, it is probably speakheaded from Aceh as it is the most fundamentally Islamic part of the country. I used to be in contact with a Chinese Malaysian who studied in Amsterdam. Each time we saw such a piece of news about Indonesia, we proclaimed it to be a "Aceh moment"
The relevancy of the NSB was a historical fluke IRL. They became the Dutch fascist party because the media payed attention to them. Not only that, but as it is explicitly national socialist and the Nazi's aren't really all that much of a relevant force in German politics, it will not be founded, together with other explicitly national socialist Dutch political parties (and there were quite a lot of those). Maybe Zwart Front (Black Front) takes that spot as they were fascists inspired by Italy. Maybe De Bezem (the Broom) survives. But honestly, Dutch fascism was in general filled with more infighting than the Spanish Republicans. Maybe a Lettow-Vorbeckesque initiative creates the Nederlandse Unie (Dutch Union) as that was founded by, among others, the post-war PM De Quay. If you know Dutch (or if English subtitles are available), I would really reccomend Allen tegen Allen (Everyone against Everyone) which is best described as a family tree of Dutch fascism. Starting from professor Bolland onwards to all entities around during the occupation. At the core of the documentary lies a family tree of Dutch fascism drawn up post war by somebody in prison
Last edited:
I've read about Jong (Young) Minahasa and the political elites hailed from there such as Geroengan Saul Samuel Jacob Ratoelangie. He was the first Indonesian who gained a doctorate degree under the First Ethical Policy Era (1900-1929). His homeland has enjoyed immense cultural affinity with the Dutch since they received protection against Spain since 1830s, so much that it was comparable with Amboina (in Central Mollucas) as the most integral Dutch colonies in the Indies. Initially he supported an integralist movement under Perserikatan Minahasa, but later would assist the Indies and Indonesian nationalists in Persatoean Minahasa to achieve self-governace for the whole colony.
Yeah, lol. The Japanese Occupation (and its collapse in August 1945) has indeed brought a time bomb for the Allies. Especially after Bersiap in which Daud Beureueh was a part of.
Mm, hmm, maybe you can help Kaiser Katze then for the development of the Dutch far-right movement.
Hahaha, yeah. The adoption of Nuremberg Laws by Mussert OTL really broke the East Indies branch since a large portion of its membership was comprised by far-right Indo-Europeans. Even the leader, Anton van der Laaken, resigned in protest.
Very well, i previously used Tessel Polmann's article for the European fascist stuffs in my mod. And your link would immensely helped me to draw out more stuffs for both the Dutch and Indies fascists contents in my mod. Thanks for your help.
Last edited:
I love the new chapter, with how everything is moving forwards! France feeling really uncomfortable about the purchases, and its subsequenct over-reaction, is very fun to see. Seeing Oskar von Hindenburg be put as a diplomat also makes sense, and with how the Alsatians are arguing over accepting German help in liberating themselves from the French, I think the world is in for another period of instability when things fall apart. It is only where things go insane that is the main problem.
Also I love that there is a snippet of ppl being hurt by the strong governmental crackdowns on communists, it shows that despite L-V being a loved statesman in Germany his actions very much cause pain and harm to the German people he claims to represent.
lol makes sense, that does make sense with the Aceh sultanate and the such.
it also made self rule a lot more palatable for the ppl living there, since the old system was ripped into pieces and discarded by the Japanese. With no Pacific war ittl I could see things going differently.
A friend told me about this most recent chapter since I'm Alsatian, and I gotta say this is very good stuff. It feels like an accurate portrayal of Alsatian sentiment at the time (this is just a few decades after things like the Saverne incident after all, so the older autonomists despising Germany makes sense, they probably got their start in those circles opposing the Reichsland's government).
TheSpectacledCloth
Gone Fishin'
Not sure that LVB will really have much of a problem with it though. Goering's actions haven't been too egregrious, at least not yet.
And he's too valuable and influential to be shafted right now. But I do agree that Goering's scheming will eventually bite him in the ass.
I really can foresee Political Islam in Indonesia to be much more subdued until 1960s when Pakistani and Malaysian politics started to influence Indonesia. A much more conciliatory Dutch government under Tjarda OTL and the survival of Aceh Sultanate over the ulemas ITTL would snuff the sentiment for a bit longer. It was the OTL Japanese Occupation and Dutch surrender who kicked the sentiment into overdrive, by the way.
If all goes well in Indonesia, only the most religious ones (or teached by them) would speak about Snouck Hurgronje and his associates such as Van Vollenhoven, Van Deventer, and Van Mook with their teeth gritted in the future Federal Republic of Indonesia. Those Leiden guys are the ones formulated the Ethical Policy, after all.