The visits by the German airforce also put strains on the UK's limited manpower resources of bricklayers, carpenters, etc, who are needed to repair (or replace) homes for British civilians.
Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.
- Thread starter allanpcameron
- Start date
Ramp-Rat
Monthly Donor
The deployment of Australian 2/3 Light Anti Aircraft Battery, to Singapore is a prim example of just how far this Time Line has diverged from ours. IOTL, this unit would still be in North Africa, taking part in the ongoing Bengasi races. Instead thanks to the fact that the Middle East campaign is effectively on hold at present, while the British wait to see which way they French in FNA and the Levent jump. This unit has been returned to Australia, completely re equipped, with far better guns than it had been using in North Africa. It’s troopers have ether been posted away to other green formations, to bolster them with experienced before their deployment, or after promotion to form the core of a new formation. This unit that when we first met it, were a poorly trained badly equipped formation, sent into action with hand-me down second hand Italian guns. Is now an experienced battle hardened unit, refreshed, rested, and re equipped, with what was probably the best light AA gun of the war.
Their arrival in theatre is going to be a big shock to the inexperienced Japanese pilots, and swiftly take a toll. Remember at this stage in the war, the Japanese airforces, have yet to encounter organised well equipped AA units, and are pretty much used to having the air to themselves. It is they who are going to have to learn, that’s those who survive the early encounters, how to fight when your enemy has effective AA fire. This Australian unit has once in theatre is not going to have to go through extensive acclimatisation or jungle training, given that the role is primarily the defensive of strategic areas, such as docks, railheads and airfields. They can swiftly be deployed and placed in action. In comparison to their experience in North Africa, they are not going to face a battle hardened opponent, equipped with rugged aircraft, designed to fight in contested airspace. The Japanese are flying light unarmored aircraft, that are highly susceptible to AA fire, which will catch light with damage that the German aircraft would survive.
The decision to transfer the forces from the grand old lady Aquitania, to smaller ships, is totally correct. Built in 1913, she would have been but for the outbreak of the war, sent to the breakers yard. And while she is in many ways better constructed than her contemporary Titanic, being both double bottomed and double hulled, she is still an old big soft target, one that the Japanese would love to claim. The fact that the British are in a much stronger position than they were IOTL, and thus able to enact such a manoeuvre, is an indication of how much this Time Line has diverged from ours. The Middle East and Mediterranean are essentially stable for now, and Japans failure to blitz Malaya and capture Singapore, mean that their campaign in the Far East and DEI, is steadily coming off the rails. Unless they can achieve all their original goals before the onset of the monsoon, there is a good chance that come the monsoon, they will find themselves back on the Malayan Thailand border, very much on the defensive. With Burma and the majority of the DEI, still in British/Dutch control, and the British/Dutch still able to export the strategic resources that the Japanese are desperate for.
While there is no question that the British especially are going to come under increasing pressure from the Americans to divert resources to the relief of their situation in the Philippines. There given the present conditions, very little that the British can do, other than run in by submarines limited amounts of food and medical supplies. While evacuating essential personal and seriously wounded, along with any women and children trapped behind the American front line. But there is no question that some of the American establishment, will demand that the British do more, irrespective of what is best for Britain. The present ongoing conference taking place in Washington is going to be in some areas very contentious, with the British and Americans talking past each other. Britains number one priority is the Battle of the Atlantic, every thing else takes second place, the bombing campaign against Germany, the campaign in the Mediterranean, and the campaign in the Far East. As for invading the European mainland, we will talk about that once we have ‘won’ the Battle of the Atlantic. The Americans safe and secure in America will want to talk about revenge against the Japanese, and destroying the Germans and their ability to make war. Plus not said, the dissolution of the British Empire, which was always something that meany Americans, especially big business sort to achieve.
However despite the various issues, one thing should be remembered, the Japanese were even before they attacked the Americans and British, loosing the war. In the same way that the Germans started a conflict that they couldn’t win, given the disparity between the German economy, and that of the British and French Empires. Which they have only compounded by attacking the Soviet Union, which added the one thing that the British and French were not prepared to expend, manpower. So too with the Japanese, having taken on a nation with over three times their population, they are now going up against the two largest Empires in the world, Britain and America, who have between them access to virtually all the resources they could require. The only question now is how long it’s going to take to end the war, and what the cost is.
RR.
Their arrival in theatre is going to be a big shock to the inexperienced Japanese pilots, and swiftly take a toll. Remember at this stage in the war, the Japanese airforces, have yet to encounter organised well equipped AA units, and are pretty much used to having the air to themselves. It is they who are going to have to learn, that’s those who survive the early encounters, how to fight when your enemy has effective AA fire. This Australian unit has once in theatre is not going to have to go through extensive acclimatisation or jungle training, given that the role is primarily the defensive of strategic areas, such as docks, railheads and airfields. They can swiftly be deployed and placed in action. In comparison to their experience in North Africa, they are not going to face a battle hardened opponent, equipped with rugged aircraft, designed to fight in contested airspace. The Japanese are flying light unarmored aircraft, that are highly susceptible to AA fire, which will catch light with damage that the German aircraft would survive.
The decision to transfer the forces from the grand old lady Aquitania, to smaller ships, is totally correct. Built in 1913, she would have been but for the outbreak of the war, sent to the breakers yard. And while she is in many ways better constructed than her contemporary Titanic, being both double bottomed and double hulled, she is still an old big soft target, one that the Japanese would love to claim. The fact that the British are in a much stronger position than they were IOTL, and thus able to enact such a manoeuvre, is an indication of how much this Time Line has diverged from ours. The Middle East and Mediterranean are essentially stable for now, and Japans failure to blitz Malaya and capture Singapore, mean that their campaign in the Far East and DEI, is steadily coming off the rails. Unless they can achieve all their original goals before the onset of the monsoon, there is a good chance that come the monsoon, they will find themselves back on the Malayan Thailand border, very much on the defensive. With Burma and the majority of the DEI, still in British/Dutch control, and the British/Dutch still able to export the strategic resources that the Japanese are desperate for.
While there is no question that the British especially are going to come under increasing pressure from the Americans to divert resources to the relief of their situation in the Philippines. There given the present conditions, very little that the British can do, other than run in by submarines limited amounts of food and medical supplies. While evacuating essential personal and seriously wounded, along with any women and children trapped behind the American front line. But there is no question that some of the American establishment, will demand that the British do more, irrespective of what is best for Britain. The present ongoing conference taking place in Washington is going to be in some areas very contentious, with the British and Americans talking past each other. Britains number one priority is the Battle of the Atlantic, every thing else takes second place, the bombing campaign against Germany, the campaign in the Mediterranean, and the campaign in the Far East. As for invading the European mainland, we will talk about that once we have ‘won’ the Battle of the Atlantic. The Americans safe and secure in America will want to talk about revenge against the Japanese, and destroying the Germans and their ability to make war. Plus not said, the dissolution of the British Empire, which was always something that meany Americans, especially big business sort to achieve.
However despite the various issues, one thing should be remembered, the Japanese were even before they attacked the Americans and British, loosing the war. In the same way that the Germans started a conflict that they couldn’t win, given the disparity between the German economy, and that of the British and French Empires. Which they have only compounded by attacking the Soviet Union, which added the one thing that the British and French were not prepared to expend, manpower. So too with the Japanese, having taken on a nation with over three times their population, they are now going up against the two largest Empires in the world, Britain and America, who have between them access to virtually all the resources they could require. The only question now is how long it’s going to take to end the war, and what the cost is.
RR.
Hm, with both Singapore and Surabaya in the vicinity of the combat area, the Japanese lack of ASW capability is going to make itself felt far more quickly than OTL (indeed, it already is). With fewer resources available to begin with, and a significantly smaller percentage of those getting home, Japan is going to find itself in the crapper sooner rather than later.
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One would hope nobody would be targeting a huge red cross lit up in lights. It is probably some kind of war crime on both sides. Red target, different story.
Very true, targeting medical facilities is a war crime, pretending your arms factory is a hospital is also a war crime.One would hope nobody would be targeting a huge red cross lit up in lights. It is probably some kind of war crime on both sides. Red target, different story.
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Garrison
Donor
Unfortunately, the history of WWII suggests both the Germans and the Japanese treated the Red Cross as a convenient targeting marker.One would hope nobody would be targeting a huge red cross lit up in lights. It is probably some kind of war crime on both sides. Red target, different story.
Britain was far more a war economy than Germany and more so than the USA. It had finite labour, skills and resources already allocated. Building a huge single tank factory, whilst maintaining existing production for actual current battle use was simply beyond possibility. If you do such a thing then you have to uh do something else. The USA was directing surplus resources from civilian use into war production. Also the minor detail of being bombed and shelled and later cruise missiles and long range supersonic rockets. The best that was achievable would have been to place all the existing factories under a central control and settle on a single medium tank base design. In OTL terms Valentine then Comet. Perhaps also build a welding plant factory and school and/or machine tool factories. At this point in time it made more sense to buy them in from the USA and use the resources in the UK for other things. But now one has to compete with the rapidly growing USA domestic arms production.
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Was there ever a concerted effort to import skilled trades on special visas that guaranteed no ability to be conscripted?
The Irish Free State would seem to be a good place for a large factory........but politics would squash the idea.
marathag
Banned
Germany was just as limited, yet built underground factory complexes
Rolls Royce took five months to go from Farmland to start making Merlins at Crewe, much like Chrysler did at Detroit
Shot from just after the War
No, the Germans were nowhere near as noted as we were. Germany had one thing we didn't - a huge pool of slave labour that could be and would be cheerfully be worked to death.
Himmler's comment "it doesn't matter to me if 50,000 Russian women die digging an anti-tank ditch, as long as it's finished for Germany." should say it all.
Himmler's comment "it doesn't matter to me if 50,000 Russian women die digging an anti-tank ditch, as long as it's finished for Germany." should say it all.
Garrison
Donor
And they built them by working tens of thousands of slaves to death. And they did so because the RAF and USAAF was flattening their normal factories. Even after they were built the underground factories took a toll on their workers because they were damp unhealthy places to work, even without the food shortages, long hours and overseers being willing to hang people in the factories for any perceived infraction.Germany was just as limited, yet built underground factory complexes
Rolls Royce took five months to go from Farmland to start making Merlins at Crewe, much like Chrysler did at Detroit
Shot from just after the War
marathag
Banned
Workers who aren't being worked to death tend to be a lot more productive.
and then could goto work on the next project.
Garrison
Donor
But that was how Germany was able to achieve these things. British labour was already fully committed to the war effort, there is no source of expendable labour and the British also didn't have the option to keep cutting living standards for their own civilian population and looting other countries to provide resources. There is simply no need for the British to invest in some mega factory that will take time to come online and will simply draw manpower away from existing projects. The USA can afford such projects and the scale of its own military needs fully justifies them, not the case for the British.
Garrison
Donor
But why do so when they can just build stuff in the USA that the British can use? Not to mention the differences in living standards and wages. A mega tank factory is a positively Naziesque boondoggle for the British and all for the sake of not using the Sherman, which appears to be a better tank ITTL, and the original was pretty decent. With it also coming into production earlier it seems I suspect its reputation will be considerably enhanced. Yes, building more of their own tanks might be one of the things you want from a Britwank but @allanpcameron is right that it really doesn't make sense.
I doubt many Americans would want to take a pay cut and endure the occasional bombing to work in Britain.
I would point out that the USA brought a lot of black labourers to Britain to build infrastructure, so getting a few in before the USA has got that organised shouldn't be much of an issue.