Map Thread XXI

[ValdoreWorks]

So, basically, TTL Soviet Union[...] is openly ruled by the vampires, right. The vampires are considered to be a next stage of human evolution, so any good communist should embrace the vampirism with open arms to prove themselves worthy of a new society

Ah yes, Communism, the ideology where all human beings are equal, and by that we mean being equally destined to become feed for the Draculean ruling cla- I-i mean Proletariate, of course...

One thing I always like to ask when it comes to vampirism, is if there's an idea as to what is missing in the vampire that they need to feed on humans.
Especially given that these in particular appear to be artificially engineered in some way

 

[Chörnyj Orel]

I really love this idea and the map! I wondered how Stettin would perform in football, for example? I think they would be significantly better than OTL micronations like San Marino or the Faroe Islands, but how much better would it get?

Thank you.
Ooffff... football... I must admit that I haven't paid attetion on football for a long time....and I do have not so much clue about it (coz I'm not so much interested in football) , but maybe you can say, that Stettin competed the one or another European championship.^^

 

[Libaton]

Map of the World in 2001

As part of the epilogue for my hiatus/dead timeline CPCW, I made a map showing the "end result" of the world, in 2001.

Democratic Japan helped in the Chinese civil war to get a pro-Japanese democratic faction on top, Indonesia and Malaysia (though fractured) were decolonised peacefully and brought into Japan's sphere, and Korea split amicably through a referendum. Britain succeeded in forming a reduced commonwealth (CANZUK plus a bit more), the USSR had an early soft collapse, the socialist EU analogue spans Eurasia from France to Kamchatka, and India split up in a civil war. The United States is on its second constitution after a bloodless coup overthrew their colonialist government fighting over US Africa (modern Man, Togo, Ubangi, down to Katanga).

Why did Germany annex Pomerania out of the blue? Or were these the Yaltan borders in this TL?

 

[Gokbay]

Why did Germany annex Pomerania out of the blue? Or were these the Yaltan borders in this TL?

"Annex"

You mean not lose.

 

[alexffnet]

There isn't really anywhere else I could think to post this that would fit but here, so here's a link to a recently made short mapping series on YouTube that I rather enjoyed. It is well made, but there is a fair amount of butterfly net usage. Basically, Chinese merchants set up colonies in the Pacific/Pacific North America after the Treasure Voyages finish.
It's about 3 1/2 hours total length. Just to clarify, I am not Cresium, the creator of this series.

Watched all of it this evening. This was pretty good. Got a bit formulaic as it went on (there’s surprisingly few butterflies despite the 700 year old PoD, if that makes sense), but given the timeframe involved that’s probably to be expected.

Flag designs were pretty neat too.

 

[Libaton]

"Annex"

You mean not lose.

If the Yaltan agreements went the way they did in OTL, then 'annex' is the right word. And since OP didn't say anything about the course of WW2, I think it's justified to assume they did.

 

[Gokbay]

If the Yaltan agreements went the way they did in OTL, then 'annex' is the right word. And since OP didn't say anything about the course of WW2, I think it's justified to assume they did.

Considering that the POD is earlier than WW2 the explanation that Germany simply doesn't lose Pomerania is much simpler than Germany losing it but somehow annexing it back later.

Occam's Razor.

 

[Pantegral]

I can already hear the millions of Cambodians screaming out in fear over being partitioned by their two greatest ancient enemies.

I actually wasn't sure what to do with big Vietnam going into the modern day. Do you think it would break up or stick together? I left the borders as-is considering our borders OTL have changed very little in that area.

Your Vietnam appears to have annexed almost all of Laos and the densely-populated southern provinces of Cambodia, home to an extra 15 million non-Vietnamese combined (roughly 7m Laotians, 7-8m Cambodians). As a result, the Kinh majority (85% in OTL) is reduced to around 75% in TTL, assuming similar population growth patterns to OTL.

This is, of course, a big "if": OTL Indochina's population levels were enormously distorted by four decades of war, famine and deprivation (1940-1979): the 1945 Japanese famine, the First, Second and Third Indochina Wars, the Khmer Rouge genocide, the Vietnamese invasion of Kampuchea, the Sino-Vietnamese war, and all the "boat people" refugee waves that resulted; followed by the continuing one-child policy in Vietnam. A poor Vietnam that neither suffered a major war nor enjoyed an economic miracle could have a considerably higher population than OTL's 100 million, with a young population pyramid similar to Nigeria. A rich Vietnam, on the other hand, could have had a much earlier demographic transition, cancelling out the population surplus enabled by the absence of high-intensity warfare and state-mandated population control - leading to a similar, or even slightly lower population compared to OTL.

The state of ethnic relations will depend on what kind of country this Vietnam is. If it's developing, authoritarian and nationalistic, then political unrest and insurgency is guaranteed; if it's rich, liberal and tolerant, then assimilating the Laotian and Cambodian population would not be impossible, but still exceedingly difficult. This is because in both culture and language, Laos and Cambodia simply have far more in common between themselves and Thailand than with Vietnam, which is basically an East Asian culture that happens to be geographically Southeast Asian. Quoting my own comment on Vietnamese territorial expansion in another thread:

...The problem with Vietnamese territorial expansion is that it's geographically Southeast Asian, but culturally East Asian - having far more cultural affinity with China than the rest of the SEA region. This is why both French and Communist plans of a post-colonial, Vietnam-centric "Indochinese Federation" encompassing all of former French Indochina (not as far-fetched an idea as you may think; the Dutch East Indies, after all, successfully emerged from colonial rule as a single entity - the multi-ethnic, yet Java-centric Republic of Indonesia) fell apart very quickly after the French departed. Laotians and Cambodians were justifiably fearful of Vietnamese domination, and there were barely any commonalities to tie such an union together.

For Vietnam to embark on westward territorial expansion, a Xinjiang-style colonisation effort (read: cultural genocide and mass population replacement) would be needed, spanning over at least a century or more. This would be an enormously risky undertaking, likely becoming both an immense drain on state resources and a source of perennial domestic instability; not to mention a magnet for international condemnation. If China has been sufficiently weakened, an expansionist Vietnam would likely set its sights northward instead: Guangxi and Guangdong was historically part of ancient Nanyue (204-111 BC, considered by some historians to be one of the earliest Vietnamese kingdoms), and there is still a small population of ethnic Gin people in Guangxi today.

Thailand, by comparison, could far more easily absorb its neighbours, thanks to extensive socio-cultural intermixing over the centuries: Laos (mutually intelligible language, very close cultural ties), Cambodia (shared Khmer heritage), and parts of Myanmar (Shan people being ethnic cousins to the Thai). If you want an expansionist colonial power in mainland Southeast Asia, a reborn Siamese Empire would be more realistic.

So instead of Vietnam absorbing all of Laos and most of southern Cambodia, you could have a rump Cambodian state centered around Phnom Penh, perhaps acting as a buffer state between Siam and Vietnam; all of the northwest would still go to Siam, while Vietnam would make do with the sparsely-populated northeast and just some border territories of the more populous southeast, which are far more easily digestible. As for Laos, much of the country's small population lives near the Thai border; as a result, Siam could easily absorb western Laos, while Vietnam can take over and assimilate the basically empty east and northeast.

 

[PauL62]

Here is a map that shares the North of France between neighboring countries

 

[PolishMagnet]

Why did Germany annex Pomerania out of the blue? Or were these the Yaltan borders in this TL?

The POD was back in the 1860s, with a drastically different ww1 and ww2, so there was neither a loss of Pomerania nor a Yalta conference. In a Kaiserreich-style European alliance, Germany tried protecting their interests but ultimately failed and was rebuilt from the ground up as a social democracy.

The lack of Nazism and genocide led to a softer punishment than OTL and Poland still controls Lviv so there is no "western shift".

Your Vietnam appears to have annexed almost all of Laos and the densely-populated southern provinces of Cambodia, home to an extra 15 million non-Vietnamese combined (roughly 7m Laotians, 7-8m Cambodians). As a result, the Kinh majority (85% in OTL) is reduced to around 75% in TTL, assuming similar population growth patterns to OTL.

This is, of course, a big "if": OTL Indochina's population was considerably lowered by three decades of war and the resulting refugee waves, followed by the Khmer Rouge genocide in Cambodia and the continuing one-child policy in Vietnam. A poor Vietnam that neither suffered a major war nor enjoyed an economic miracle could have a considerably higher population than OTL's 100 million, with a young population pyramid similar to Nigeria. A rich Vietnam, on the other hand, could have had a much earlier demographic transition, cancelling out the population gained through peace and a lack of state-mandated population control - leading to a similar, or even slightly lower population compared to OTL.

The state of ethnic relations will depend on what kind of country this Vietnam is. If it's developing, authoritarian and nationalistic, then political unrest and insurgency is guaranteed; if it's rich, liberal and tolerant, then assimilating the Laotian and Cambodian population would not be impossible, but still exceedingly difficult. This is because in both culture and language, Laos and Cambodia simply have far more in common between themselves and Thailand than with Vietnam, which is basically an East Asian culture that happens to be geographically Southeast Asian. Quoting my own comment on Vietnamese territorial expansion in another thread:

So instead of Vietnam absorbing all of Laos and most of southern Cambodia, you could have a rump Cambodian state centered around Phnom Penh, perhaps acting as a buffer state between Siam and Vietnam; all of the northwest would still go to Siam, while Vietnam would make do with the sparsely-populated northeast and just some border territories of the more populous southeast, which are far more easily digestible. As for Laos, much of the country's small population lives near the Thai border; as a result, Siam could easily absorb western Laos, while Vietnam can take over and assimilate the basically empty east and northeast.

Very nice analysis

I planned for Vietnam to go along the lines of Siam OTL but with a bit more economic growth and left-leaning influence as a place where Japanese companies and thinkers push their products or ideas. Much like American free market ideas were experimented in Chile, Japanese ideas of the ideal East Asian society ITTL would be pushed in Vietnam. I didn't quite nail it down yet, but I imagined some sort of highly ceremonial monarchy (emphasis on state rituals) and social harmony (kind of like welfare, but focused on supporting roles). The latter part I imagine could be used to create autonomous provinces, but I feel like that would be a king Solomon situation (IE neither side is happy).

I think you're right about a small Cambodia being broken off, but I wonder if Siam would actually be upset about it. Perhaps Cambodians on the Thai side of the border might feel restless?

In any case, I'll use some of your ideas if I get back into the timeline at some point.

 

[GodoftheTranses]

Here is a map that shares the North of France between neighboring countries

View attachment 777492

Whats the map of Benelux look like in this timeline? Because Greater Netherlands shouldnt border Northern France if Belgium also exists

 

[Analytical Engine]

Whats the map of Benelux look like in this timeline? Because Greater Netherlands shouldnt border Northern France if Belgium also exists

That Netherlands looks like it probably contains Flanders at least.

 

[PauL62]

That Netherlands looks like it probably contains Flanders at least.

@GodoftheTranses Yeah, it is... It's in a scenario where Germany won WW1, Netherlands gains Flanders and Dunkirk Area, and in compensation, Belgium acquires the rest of the North of France, except Calais area, which is ceded to Britain in exchange of a separate peace.

 

[Votre Idéolinguiste Local]

@GodoftheTranses Yeah, it is... It's in a scenario where Germany won WW1, Netherlands gains Flanders and Dunkirk Area, and in compensation, Belgium acquires the rest of the North of France, except Calais area, which is ceded to Britain in exchange of a separate peace.

So I must ask if this CP victory scenario meant to be a tiny bit realistic or is it just doing whatever

 

[Reneeoka]

Anyways I'm kinda busy and I am focusing on my studies while doing these in my free time.
I would like to share a bit of Project Ocraria or Avatar: Republic and Beyond, maps, and posters from past months and currently.

Map with propaganda posters:

Maps:

Anyways the 2nd map is kinda wip'ish in the style of Pergamon atlas doing town naming and such but I have to share the base map because to put the topo and geographical stuff like in the TV news mountains that are dashed.
Probably it would be finished later this month or in October if I have some free time.

 

[HisMajestyPurpleCat]

Rivne/Rovno (the Wall): Ukraine Divided

Spoiler: Description

The map is inspired by the Ukrainian novel "Rівне / Ровно (Стіна)" ("Rivne / Rovno (the Wall)") by Oleksandr Irvanets'. And no, I haven't read it, I only know the premise, so this map would be a free interpretation of it.
So, somehow Ukraine got itself divided into two parts: Western Ukrainian Republic (under the jurisdiction of the UN) and the Socialist Republic of Ukraine. The city of the protagonist, Rivne, also suddenly got a wall in the middle of it, dividing the city into western Rivne and eastern Rovno. The protagonist lives in the western part and somehow (as I said, I haven't read this) gets into the eastern part, which could basically be described as if USSR never died in that particular area, with Communist Party still being in power. The novel, if what I was told is correct, ends with SRU invading Rivne, the western part, reunificating the city.

Now, the map itself. There are, obviously, two Ukraines: the Western and Eastern. The Eastern differs from the original in the novel in that it is not exactly a one-party state: there you can vote for not just one, but three "different" socialist parties (CPU, SPU, PSPU)! All of which are part of the same ruling coalition, "the People's Bloc", right. The flag is basically that of the Ukrainian SSR's, but with star replacing the hammer and sickle.
While de-jure Ukrainian is the official language of the SRU, Russian is much more prestigious socially (it is also a second official language, and is considered to be "the language of inter-ethnic communication"), with it being not uncommon for the records in the easternmost parts being kept exclusively in it. That is why, following novel's author's example, I used Russian version of the city names for the SRU.

And yes, Transnistria is now a part of SRU, because why not. It also got some parts of the Odessa oblast, practically recreating the old Moldavian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, which was a part of Ukraine in 20s and 30s, before it got split between the Ukrainian and the newly created Moldavan SSRs in 1940. You can also see the internationally recognised border of Ukraine in that area, so you can compare and see the difference.

I'm not sure what to say about WUR. Well, it is very westernized and also hosts a primarily Polish NATO contingent and is, obviously, more free and prosperous than the Eastern Ukraine.

Edit: fixed Donetsk oblast border

 

[PobreCesar]

Rivne/Rovno

Looks great. I'll have to look at the book, but wouldn't West Ukraine be rather badly outnumbered?

Yes, that is a HRE-ified extended Hindi Belt of India.

That's a creative twist on the normal "Easternized World" idea

A very gripping propaganda poster

Thread Tax: Two potential plans for resolving the problem of the Spanish Succession

 

[HisMajestyPurpleCat]

Looks great. I'll have to look at the book, but wouldn't West Ukraine be rather badly outnumbered?

Well, it is under UN jurisdiction and it hosts some NATO troops. So I'd imagine that the major reason WUR still exists is the western peacekeepers.

 

[Vonga-vonga]

Another attempt at a semi-realistic post-WWIII division of Russia... and its consequences.
Any similarity to current politics is coincidental. I just like these shapes.

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

Another attempt at a semi-realistic post-WWIII division of Russia... and its consequences.
Any similarity to current politics is coincidental. I just like these shapes.

Still too big
Why don't you try independent Ingria?