Europe never dominates the world

[Citycat]

The Mongols obliterated the great Arab/Islamic civilisation and also destroyed the economic powerhouse that was the Song Dynasty. If the Mongols are butterflied away as a major force, perhaps if these two civilisations could continue to thrive, they would overshadow Europe and butterfly away the Great Divergence of OTL.

 

[Ohfshkssgb]

The Mongols obliterated the great Arab/Islamic civilisation and also destroyed the economic powerhouse that was the Song Dynasty.

No they didn't. Islamic World remained cultural important and China remained the largest economy centuries after Mongol conquests

If the Mongols are butterflied away as a major force, perhaps if these two civilisations could continue to thrive, they would overshadow Europe and butterfly away the Great Divergence of OTL.

You're fundamentally misunderstanding the Great divergence. It wasn't the decline of the East but the rise of the West above it

 

[Beatriz]

Bruce Munro made a map where no-Islam emerged and India unified and became a hyperpower

 

[traminer]

A Norse Wank. 878, Guthrum defeats Alfred the alt-Great. Dead Alfred is no longer building monasteries to convert the heathen. English cultural practices, use of runic writing in daily life, dress, intermarriage is all tending Norse, like it was in the Danelaw OTL until the reconquest reversed the trend.

Something, a revolt, a smelly priest, whatever, cause the Norse ruling class to turn decisively against Christianity, killing the Priests in the next 20-30 years. Jesus is increasingly seen as the God of the conquered rather than Conquer as, at the same time, the Norse-Saxons finish the conquest of Ireland, Wales, and Lowland Scotland and the process repeated.

The Norse now have a model of cultural assimilation and transmission and uncontested rule, as well as larger population to draw on, with the Norse-Saxons being part of this growing Pagan world. Writing on Vellum in a Runic-cursive becomes common.

This cultural package, somewhat garbeled and adapted, is transmitted to the trade routes to proto-Russia and the Baltic countries and to Iceland and to a Vinland reinforced by Norse Saxons, which leads to a successful, but more gradual conquest of the Americas. But perhaps little things, like Maize and bigger turkey eggs increasing the nutrition of the Norse but entering the rest of Europe more slowly creates an edge.

The end result is the Baltic, North Sea and Channel being as much a dividing line as culturally as the Mediterranean, a separate Civilization anchored in England and Eastern Europe, with the Christian world petering out somewhere around the Vistula

Europe circa 1400 is smaller, more defensively minded than otl.

I quite like this take. Culturally dividing Europe in a way that leaves competing cultures/religions with a balance of power strikes me as the best way to not have a bunch of European nations all venture forth at similar times to trade and conquer in similar ways. Dialling back the similarity of approaches could dial back the severity of some of the impacts.

I would add to it a thought in an earlier post: hybridization of cultures in the "new world." Vinland leaving a rather greater imprint on North America before still dropping contact with Europe could create changes in native cultures in northeast North America, or even leave behind an influential Norse/native Métis culture. That plants a seed to make the continent less ripe for Euro-bullying later.

 

[JaguarCD]

The Mongols obliterated the great Arab/Islamic civilisation and also destroyed the economic powerhouse that was the Song Dynasty. If the Mongols are butterflied away as a major force, perhaps if these two civilisations could continue to thrive, they would overshadow Europe and butterfly away the Great Divergence of OTL.

The gunpowder empires effectively were the Mongol Empire in a way, despite them forming after things went bad for the Mongols. What you're saying wouldn't change too much about OTL.

 

[Beatriz]

I quite like this take. Culturally dividing Europe in a way that leaves competing cultures/religions with a balance of power strikes me as the best way to not have a bunch of European nations all venture forth at similar times to trade and conquer in similar ways. Dialling back the similarity of approaches could dial back the severity of some of the impacts.

I would add to it a thought in an earlier post: hybridization of cultures in the "new world." Vinland leaving a rather greater imprint on North America before still dropping contact with Europe could create changes in native cultures in northeast North America, or even leave behind an influential Norse/native Métis culture. That plants a seed to make the continent less ripe for Euro-bullying later.

Also somehow getting Asian powers to a stage where they can seed colonies

 

[traminer]

Also somehow getting Asian powers to a stage where they can seed colonies

That's one path. Two other possible ones (none mutually exclusive):
2 - make the colonial model pursued by Europe OTL culturally or religiously repugnant, tempting fewer Europeans to follow it.
3 - bolster how well nations around Europe contain its ambition (better/more lasting Huns; Moors leaving much or all of Iberia in peace and friendship, and then being the Islamic cousins across the strait who facilitate Iberian trade with Africa, rather than being enemies or trade rivals to go around; better Ottoman relations and trade...)

A variant of 3 would be having much gentler colonial things going on: Basque fishing off the Grand Banks leads to slow contact and trade while the focus stays on fishing. A mildly-better-off Navarre doesn't create a stampede for new world resources. Vikings dropping in on Vinland again when things go bad versus Christians in Europe doesn't supercharge them.

The next timeline I write will go for one of these themes, but without any European setting. At my current pace with the current one, maybe that's in 2025.